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Subject: Beggar copies Speculator/Inventor rss

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David F
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The way I see it, the game turns described in the rulebook might have been too simplistic, and each game turn should progress like this.

1. All action cards are revealed.
2. Score any Speculators, Inventors and whatever the last guy's name is. Their actions are resolved.
3. Each player takes their action in turn order, and you of course skip the players who already played Speculator, Inventor or Whatever.

So, if somebody plays the Beggar, can he choose to copy a successful Speculator/Inventor/Whatever and score 6 VPs? I believe not, because I think the Speculator/Inventor/Whatever scores immediately, but you can only use the Beggar's ability when it's your turn to resolve your action, so it's too late for you to use the Speculator's ability.

Am I correct?
 
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Jon
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I've always played that all characters were activated in player order.
 
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David F
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Yes it's true, but the Speculator/Inventor/Dealer roles say "...when action cards are revealed", which suggests to me that they score immediately when players reveal action cards at the start of a round.
 
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Steve Duff
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The game has extremely precise rules for evaluating moves in player order, when and how first player moves, and how it interacts with the scoring.

For example, the game ends *immediately* when someone hits 80 points, or the last pillar is placed on the board, even if it's mid turn and some folks haven't had their turn yet.

You simply *cannot* interfere with that order and hand people points before it's their turn.
 
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David F
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Luck in games, in measured doses, is the catalyst which enables shocking game-changers that you'll remember and talk about forever.
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Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
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The German rules might be precise, but the several English translations out there contradict each other and hence aren't precise. The really frustrating thing is that each action card is explained in the rules, except the speculation cards.

I am going by "If the XXX is in play when action cards are revealed.", which is an ambiguous phrase, but I'd say more of the phrase leans toward scoring immediately. I interpret any card that doesn't say "...when action cards are revealed" as a card that you trivially apply in turn order.

It just seems weird to me if I don't play it that way. To me, the speculation cards are to reward you for correctly guessing what role is in demand this round, not for some Beggar or Spy to leech off you every turn. It seems to me that the Spy and Beggar will be way too powerful if you don't score the speculation cards immediately.

Look at it this way. If the speculation cards don't score immediately when action cards are revealed, what's to stop each player from playing Spy every turn and grabbing the correct speculation card (Inventor/Speculator/Dealer)? It's not hard at all to keep track of who has the Inventor, Speculation or Dealer. The game just seems broken to me if you don't score the speculation cards immediately "when action cards are revealed".

I've played with the rule to score speculation cards immediately so far, and the games have been very enjoyable. Do your games degenerate into what I mentioned? If not, could you see it happening?
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Geo
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selwyth wrote:
Yes it's true, but the Speculator/Inventor/Dealer roles say "...when action cards are revealed", which suggests to me that they score immediately when players reveal action cards at the start of a round.


You check for the right conditions when the cards are revealed and you score them in player order. That's how we play.

 
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