John Buse
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
-
MMP has had the reprint of Angola on pre-order for quite a while, but it is still well short of its target. Adam Starkweather has now announced that Angola is on a pre-order death watch - he will reevaluate on September 15 and "see if Angola will continue to be available for prepub."
If you've been holding off on that pre-order, Angola needs help now. This excellent and unique game deserves to be in print.
http://www.multimanpublishing.com/preorder/preorder.php
-
Tim Porter
United States
Thousand Oaks
California
Visit the Wargame Bootcamp guild
To mark the 60th Diamond Jubilee of Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories, Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
-
NOOOOOOOOOO !
I already have a pre-order...please people, pre-order Angola so it can be reprinted.
-
Ethan Tan
Singapore
Singapore
-
Really hope that this title can make the cut!
Just 1 suggestion: Perhaps pre-order numbers can be improved if MMP were to make its rulebook available online. While many wargamers have heard about this game, it remains a cult favourite and only a small number of people have actually played this before. This makes it difficult for potential buyers to evaluate a title without finding out more through a rulebook.
-
Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
-
It would be nice if Adam, if he can, extend the deadline until the end of the year for the following reasons:
1. Summer pre-orders are always slow and low. They spike in the Fall and Spring.
2. This game has only been on pre-order for about 15 months. These current P500 titles sat on pre-order for about 20 to 23 months before reaching their goals (and they started in the Fall):
Kingdom of Heaven: The Crusader States 1097-1291 AD
The Tide at Sunrise: The Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905
War of the Suns
Breakthrough: Cambrai still hasn't met its goal and has been on the list for about 20 months as well. I know there are under the hood factors which differ from game to game in terms of its P500 status, but at least let the Fall pre-orders roll in before deciding, thanks!
-
Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
-
boing123 wrote: Just 1 suggestion: Perhaps pre-order numbers can be improved if MMP were to make its rulebook available online. While many wargamers have heard about this game, it remains a cult favourite and only a small number of people have actually played this before. This makes it difficult for potential buyers to evaluate a title without finding out more through a rulebook.
I would love to see rulebooks online as well, but at this time that won't happen due to how MMP feels about posting rules online for certain games.
-
Christian Moura
Australia
Melbourne
-
jyeackle wrote: boing123 wrote: Just 1 suggestion: Perhaps pre-order numbers can be improved if MMP were to make its rulebook available online. While many wargamers have heard about this game, it remains a cult favourite and only a small number of people have actually played this before. This makes it difficult for potential buyers to evaluate a title without finding out more through a rulebook. I would love to see rulebooks online as well, but at this time that won't happen due to how MMP feels about posting rules online for certain games.
Angola is my all time favourite game, and I don't own it. Breaks my heart to think we might never see a reprint.
The idea of making the rulebook available is fantastic. Too bad MMP are s**t when it comes to many aspects of their marketing and business practices.
-
Adam Starkweather
United States
New York City
New York
-
Quote: Too bad MMP are s**t when it comes to many aspects of their marketing and business practices.
Calling me names will certainly not get me interested in doing anything you suggest. I will resist telling you my opinion of your opinion. Shame too - it would be colorful and interesting.
IGS works on spec. People don't get paid or rewarded until the game is published. You may not give a shit about others people's time and efforts - but I do.
Rulebook for the MMP version isn't done and can't be posted. I am hesitant asking someone to finish it (let alone expecting them to do so) when all that work might lead to naught.
-
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
-
Little thin-skinned aren't we, Mr. Starkweather?
You many not like the poster's delivery, but he does make a point. As far as I can determine, MMP provides no information to its customers regarding their pre-orders from the point they pre-order to the point the game is taken off the list and a notice is provided on the MMP website that it is shipping (other than pre-orders count updates). And even then, a customer cannot find out when their game actually shipped or track its delivery. When the game reaches the magic pre-order number, no production/delivery timeline is provided, i.e., it could be months or year(s) before the game is actually published and the customer knows nothing.
Given that, it must be a successful business model, because it would appear the MMP is a thriving business, no matter how indifferent they are to their customers.
-
Adam Starkweather
United States
New York City
New York
-
I don't think reacting to being called shit is thin-skinned, Mr Knepper.
Just making sure that being impolite, insulting and rude isn't considered acceptable behavior in any venue that I frequent.
-
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
-
adamant wrote: I don't think reacting to being called shit is thin-skinned, Mr Knepper.
Well your reaction is your choice, although I 'assume' the poster was making reference to the business practices of the generic game publishing company, rather than you personally (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm in error). And focusing on the delivery of the messenger, permits you to dodge responding to the message.
adamant wrote: Just making sure that being impolite, insulting and rude isn't considered acceptable behavior in any venue that I frequent.
You have your work cut out for you, as "impolite, insulting, and rude" behavior is not atypical on this website.
-
Breno K.
Brazil
Brasília
Distrito Federal
-
Quote: You have your work cut out for you, as "impolite, insulting, and rude" behavior is not atypical on this website.
I disagree, I find BGG to be much better than the internet average (which is definitely very low, but still). Things get a little uglier when you go to very specific niches, since gamers there seem to be more passionate about their views, but still, you won't see shitty behavior as frequently here as pretty much anywhere else on the web.
Anyway, I've placed my order now, with this newfound threat to Angola's existence. Not much of a wargamer, but the period interests me enough to give wargaming another (rather expensive, considering the international shipping and import tax I'll have to pay) attempt.
-
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
-
BrenoK wrote: Quote: You have your work cut out for you, as "impolite, insulting, and rude" behavior is not atypical on this website. I disagree, I find BGG to be much better than the internet average (which is definitely very low, but still). Things get a little uglier when you go to very specific niches, since gamers there seem to be more passionate about their views, but still, you won't see shitty behavior as frequently here as pretty much anywhere else on the web. Anyway, I've placed my order now, with this newfound threat to Angola's existence. Not much of a wargamer, but the period interests me enough to give wargaming another (rather expensive, considering the international shipping and import tax I'll have to pay) attempt.
I live in a sheltered environment.
-
Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
-
Aging One wrote: Well your reaction is your choice, although I 'assume' the poster was making reference to the business practices of the generic game publishing company, rather than you personally (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm in error).
Even so, Adam is a facet of the company so it would be hard not to take any insult a bit personally, especially when it's happened many many many many times before on this topic and if memory serves, Adam is at least one of the individuals at MMP who doesn't want IGN rules posted online.
If we keep asking nicely, then maybe one day Adam will get tired of saying "no no no" and instead say "fine, here's an outline or two, now leave me alone!"  Or maybe have living rules we can download. Nothing like driving to a friends house only to realize I left the rules on the nightstand and I can't download 'em.
If we barb our requests, then that'll be the quickest way to getting them denied.
-
Adam Starkweather
United States
New York City
New York
-
Breno - thank you so much!! I know that international shipping makes this a difficult choice and I am fully aware of what you are doing and the costs involved...
I will try my very hardest to make it worth it to you in the end.
Adam
-
John Buse
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
-
Okay, we've got 10 or so more pre-orders in 24 hours, but there is a long way to go.
The physical factors (production and price) justifying a pre-order are simple. The production will be much better than the Ragnar version, which had uncut and unmounted counters, uncut cards, and a map best described as ... colorful. And the preorder price, while higher than other MMP IGS games, is far below what you can find the Ragnar edition for, if you can find it at all.
But it's understandable if potential buyers are put off by the relatively obscure Cold War, post-colonial topic - so it would be cool to hear from a few people experienced with the Ragnar Bros. game about what makes Angola different - and why it's worth pre-ordering.
-
Ethan Tan
Singapore
Singapore
-
Relax guys. Fact of the situation is that everyone on this thread wants to see this game reprinted, and is trying to find a way to improve the pre-order numbers.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried asking Ragnar Brothers for permission to upload on BGG/CSW a copy of their rulebook? I have a friend who has tried to organise a game of Angola on a few occasions, but the unavailability of an online rulebook is such a huge problem.
I have myself always bought boardgames only after checking out the rulebooks. But if this wasn't an option, does anyone have better ideas to get the extra 155 pre-orders?
-
Luke Sineath
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
-
Putting the RB online is not a good idea. It is likely still under development. Plus, what wargame companies post the rules to a game before it comes out? I can't think of any. Sure, GMT posts the rules to nearly all of their games online, but not before they are released! The negativity in this thread feels like the standard, fashionable MMP bashing.
-
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
-
jyeackle wrote: Aging One wrote: Well your reaction is your choice, although I 'assume' the poster was making reference to the business practices of the generic game publishing company, rather than you personally (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm in error). Even so, Adam is a facet of the company so it would be hard not to take any insult a bit personally, especially when it's happened many many many many times before on this topic and if memory serves, Adam is at least one of the individuals at MMP who doesn't want IGN rules posted online. If we keep asking nicely, then maybe one day Adam will get tired of saying "no no no" and instead say "fine, here's an outline or two, now leave me alone!" Or maybe have living rules we can download. Nothing like driving to a friends house only to realize I left the rules on the nightstand and I can't download 'em. If we barb our requests, then that'll be the quickest way to getting them denied.
Well, I would suggest that it is highly unlikely that Mr. Starkweather will make a "business" decision based on the 'barbed' comments of one or two people on this website. But, if he does, more power to him, apparently its his business.
-
-
I think Angola looks amazing. But the BGG page lists it as an 8 hour game. Is that assessment correct?
I'm personally not that interested in playing a game that lasts longer than about four hours. Otherwise I would have ordered Angola a long time ago.
-
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
-
Rindu wrote: Putting the RB online is not a good idea. It is likely still under development. Plus, what wargame companies post the rules to a game before it comes out? I can't think of any. Sure, GMT posts the rules to nearly all of their games online, but not before they are released!
Not so, DVG certainly does and I'm pretty sure there have been others, I just can't remember the specific game right off the top of my head.
Rindu wrote: The negativity in this thread feels like the standard, fashionable MMP bashing.
However, whether the rules get posted or not is of no concern to me. The issue that concerns me is the general indifference that MMP exhibits towards its pre-order customers. And Mr. Starkweather choses not to address that; rather he prefers to be offended by the off hand remark of one individual.
-
Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
-
Aging One wrote: And Mr. Starkweather choses not to address that; rather he prefers to be offended by the off hand remark of one individual.
That's what I was trying to address in my other post. In this thread it's only been one individual, but over the years on BBG and CSW its been substantially more.
While its unreasonable to expect everyone to know it's been hashed over quite a few times, it's not unreasonable to ask that gamers remain respectful in their requests. As I mentioned I'm a big fan of seeing MMPs policy change, but seeing the rude posts (if I agree with them or not) bugs me because rather than helping the situation it only risks damaging it more.
In this particular case a business decision isn't being decided, as it's already been made and hasn't seemed to negatively impact their business enough or at all to change it based on that merit. This only leaves us with asking for it to change, and some ways of asking are much better than other ways.
-
Christian Moura
Australia
Melbourne
-
Woah, didn't expect this backlash. Well, if I was rude, I was rude, and I can take any harsh comments - easy for me, I am an anonymous gamer who doesn't run any companies.
I love the IGS series, own most of the games, and have nothing personal against Adam Starkweather, quite the contrary.
My comments refer to how MMP decide to do business. Not allowing online rulebooks of their already published games available, not giving people who preorder information on what's going on, the hindrances in their schedule, stuff like Up Front being in the limbo for years without us knowing anything. Sorry if I compare them to GMT who seems to do everything in the opposite, and looks to be greatly successful.
Sorry guys if I sabotaged Angola, MY ABSOLUTE FAVOURITE GAME, and offended Adam and now he is not printing it for anyone. 
-
Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
-
The rules to Barbarossa: Kiev to Rostov were also online before publication in draft form.
Adam - given the extreme rarity and uniqueness of this title, I hope you will reconsider posting rules online, even if only temporarily. I understand that you hate publishing anything that's not in final form, but is it really better to hold to that principle and see this game not get published at all?
-
Breno K.
Brazil
Brasília
Distrito Federal
-
You could print "this is not the rules' final iteration, many changes are bound to occur" at the start of each paragraph. Heck, a rough draft in .txt form would be good enough for many
I just want to see this going to print someday.
-
Christian Moura
Australia
Melbourne
-
rayito2702 wrote: I think Angola looks amazing. But the BGG page lists it as an 8 hour game. Is that assessment correct?
I'm personally not that interested in playing a game that lasts longer than about four hours. Otherwise I would have ordered Angola a long time ago.
I'd say it's about right - definitely over 4h long.
-
|
|
