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Subject: What Would You Like Changed In The Game? rss

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J B
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This is purely a hypothetical question but a pertinent one at this point in time. A lot of people didn't like how the game played although most loved the look and feel of it. With FFG aquiring the license now would seem a good time to raise any issues that people would like to see amended or changed completely. Certain members may also have views on what they would like to see added to the game and these would be also good to hear. It would be even better if players who hated the game posted their dislikes about the game and what stopped them buying in or indeed what stopped them playing on a regular basis for those who did buy in. This would at least give FFG pointers on how they could remedy some of the issues. Personally I like Tannhauser although I do have a few niggles with it. Ultimately if FFG can make changes that are acceptable? It will mean the game will sell more and we can all enjoy it more with faster releases and better support.

It would be good to hear peoples views/opinions.
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Jim Patterson
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Re: What Would You Like Changed in the Game?
A cleaner, easier-to-use rulebook (which FFG seems inclined to produce).

Official player aids comparable to the ones Universal Head has produced. Character and equipment "cards" would be great for quick reference. This is a game that some people can quickly abandon in frustration because there are so many equipment options to learn all at once; FFG should make using the characters as easy and quick as possible.

More story in the Story Mode. FFG's model of a story mode seems to be superior to the official one ToY did. Keep at it.

More and continued effort on backstory. This isn't a big deal for me, but if you go to the trouble of crafting a world, why not use it?

A better release schedule, obviously. Boards should come out on something of the schedule of Formula D's (i.e., three times a year).

A better component/price ratio. The Novgorod expansion is pretty expensive for what's in the box.

More.
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Scott Anderson
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Re: What Would You Like Changed in the Game?
I don't think really need to change anything. I do agree with fixing the rule book. More scenarios connected to the story and more maps would be nice. Also they need a few more characters. Not a lot but 5 or so more would be good.
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Jasper Mangus
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Well I'm hoping the new german scientist, minotaur, and US with cloaking suit come soon. I'd also like maybe a troop pack with extra sets of the grunts so you could get them in pairs (iirc there was word of french versions with different paint jobs).
Not really game tweaks but I would like to see this stuff come, maybe pack it into a box with daedalus.
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Jason Dyke
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Official multiplayer capability. Obviously this is related to the maps, entry points and number of available characters and factions. The Novgorod expansion allowed you to squeeze in an extra team (3rd player), but the idea of each person in a multiplayer game controlling one or two characters doesn't work. As per a previous reply to this thread, that may require additional characters. I don't think you could stretch it to more than 4 players, but something along the lines of the Epic gameplay for Commands and Colors games would work well with Tannhauser.

Easier setup. They could have pre-printed equipment packs for a quick setup, or you could play the longer (vanilla) setup method as is. I find that one of the reasons the game doesn't hit my table more often is the time it takes to sift through tokens and chose startup equipment, especially if you haven't played for a while and have to figure out what some of the more obscure tokens do again.

More FFG support, similar to that recieved by games like Arkham Horror or the LCG's. A Tannhauser league with regular scenarios (similar to the recent FFG-posted story mode contributions) and an overall annual/ biannual winner, to promote more awareness of the game. I think that the French already have Tannhauser competitions, a big factor in promoting continued interest in the game (and driving the push for regular expansions).
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Vincent Appel
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Here's one of my main issues with Tannhauser:For the length of time it takes to setup a game, it doesn't seem worth it when an opponent gets a lucky shot on 1 roll of a 10 that instakills my favorite guy. I would like units to be harder to kill, and less instakill weapons, or at least modified rules to make them not quite so powerful.

Also, I bought the game excited about the death-matches and capture the flag, etc. None of these "modes" seem very different, and they're all still basically 2 player, (unless you split your squadrons).

For how gorgeous the game is, I would love it to get fixed.
-v
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Brian Modreski
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The main problem I have with Tannhauser is the poor lack of reference to what all the gear does. I'd like to see each token with an indication of what it does on the token.

Reference cards for each equipment pack that can be placed on the character card are a good compromise, but still don't help with "bonus" equipment and pick-up equipment from crates.

We've also been playing that rolls are normally against a fixed target number of 6, instead of being based on the opponent's stat. This is a lot smoother and simpler. We do modify it for gear that modifies target values.
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Ray Pascalis
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More maps and more backstory
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J B
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It's intersting to read what people would like changed to improve the game. I have to admit I thought maybe some more broader and wide sweeping changes would be desired but this is not the case so far. I will admit I have my own opinions which I will post in a few days. I didn't want to ask a question and then answer it straight away with what I think. I have popped a link below to the duplicate thread on the FFG site just in case some of you never go over there. I wouldn't blame you for not bothering as FFG have never posted on it LOL. It may interesting for you to read the comments on that site though.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...
 
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Brian Modreski
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Oh, another thing - well balanced characters! Most of them are fine, but some are a little weak, notably Yula.
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Calavera Soñando
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For me the game lacked... staying power. I bought it to play with my thirteen-year-old son because, from afar, it looked like Heroscape with a niftier backstory--sort of a WWI/WWII meets Cthulu-cult proto-Nazi type of thing, and that's just unbelievably cool.

The first few plays were great, and I do really like the way the game handles the line-of-sight issue. But after a while, I feel like we had explored it to the extent that it could be explored.

Then the expansions started releasing. I have a huge problem with games that need expansions to stay fresh. It's why I ultimately rejected Duel of Ages, and why I will likely ultimately reject Dominion. I shouldn't have to shell out more cash for a game to remain fun. And to be clear - I have no problem with expansions in general - there are lots of great ones - I have a problem with expansions being the only thing that makes me want to come back to the game. That's a CCG mentality - a consumer trap, and I won't be caught in it.

I am not sure, therefore that there is some specific thing that could be changed that would improve it, other than adding some complexity and depth that would make the choices feel compelling or meaningful.

I'd also like to see the game make better use of the theme, or a more intimate link between the theme and the game play. The scenarios always fell flat for us - it was just more fun to play a capture the flag or deathmatch, just tactically there was more going on, and other than some of the special powers, I never felt like there was much else that made the theme come alive. As of now, the way the theme is integrated is like lathering delicious frosting on a cake made of air.
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John DiSerio
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I don't think there is a whole lot that needs to be changed.

The core of it is fine. Just the nuts and bolts need tightening.

fix the bull rush rule, allow player to throw grenades onto occupied spaces.

A few other things.

Just better keep the path finding system

and hope they do NOT change too much of the rules for the equipment. arrrharrrharrrharrrharrrh
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Michael Friedchen
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Hi,



before i start i have to apologize my bad english( I ´m from germany).

These are the things, i wish to change/corrected, some of them i already changed by myself



1. I dont like the counterattack rules, because nobody in my playgroup used them and i think they are to weak to paying a VP for

I like the Alertness! option from Doom, the Boardgame,so i created a houserule for putting them into TH. When a character ends his/her movement he/she can give up his/her action to put an Alertness! token under the figure. Whenever an Enemy crosses the Path of the Alerntess-Figure, the Alertness Token can be activated and the character can make a range attack. This is only allowed with common ranged weapons (like Pistols, Automatics, Heavy) but not with Magnificators, Dooms Evas Whip, grenades,sha-na-ra ect.

When a character uses his Alertness! he/she must pay 1 VP for this action.

I put this rule in, because i think, the most problems in the game are running from an enemy and getting out of his range. But normally a soldier prepare for fire when he hears an near enemy. I liked this option in doom and so i wanted it in TH(but with the Payment of 1VP, because every Char want to make Alertness rather than normal attacks i guess).



2. I dont like the story mode a much, because it is only a deathmatch and the story is not really in the game setting. Scenarios are cool, but the story mode has to be a main part i think, so it have to be more Storylike.

In my group, we play the story part like this.

Every put his Primary/Secondary Token on the board like normal. Every token has its own skill-to-accomplish like in the normal game mode.

But every skill needs a special action, like in a movie, to accomplish the goal.

For example, an Engineer/Cold Blooded Goal:

To accomplish the Ingeneer Mission, the character has to really repair/mod an device. The cold Blooded Mission need a "Mind" check or something.

Here is a table, i created, which sets up the required Items/Checks/actions for every Mission

Before the game starts, every Player looks at his Primary token and search for the matching entry in the table, for his goals.(Every Faction has his own tables, i dont finished them yet, because we have too few tst matches played yet.)

Example Table Reich

1. Reason(dunno the english translation)/weaponry (same)

The Germans have to decrypt an coded weapon plan and destroy the existing one.

To decrypt the plan, the character have to make a Mind Skill Check with a difficulty of 6+(he/she still needs the Mind Talent)When the character succeeds to decrypt the plan before it is destroyed, the reich gets 3 Victory Points

To destroy it, the char must have the Weaponry Talent and have to plant explosives (give up an action). In the next round,after the characters movement, an explosion will destroy the place with the token (just like an Dynamite-Explosion i.e. 2 Auto-Wounds ect.)unless the character is killed (he posseses the timer).When the reich destroys the place, they gain 3 VPs.



Example of an secondary Mission

Slight at Hand (dunno, you know what i mean): the reich has to pass a security system with defensive Weapons, to dismantle them

The character must have the required Skill and make a Movement Skill Check of 6+. If he/She fails, he/she suffers One Wound, and can try it again in the next round.When the test succeeds in the first try, the reich gains 2 VP, for every other try, only 1VP.



Every Character can still buy Skills, like in the core Rules.

If you are interested, i can post more mission Goals and rules.

What are your thoughts about my house rules?


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William Roop
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I thought that a BETTER way to handle expansions would have been if they had designed the board to be modular... Each mini-board could have been a room or set of rooms that connected to other rooms as desired for the game. If the number of rooms were somehow connected to the number of players OR the number of characters per side used, then you wouldnt be fighting the same map(s) each time, expansions could have been produced cheaper and replay ability would have been better. The only problem would have been the color-dot line of site system. But if each room were PRINTED in a color, and hallways with symbols representing LOS from the hallway were made, it might have worked. It would have also allowed a WIDE variety of rooms to be created with some back-story connected to that particular room. That way the story behind the mission is "written" by the rooms used and how they are placed. It would also allow a person to design a mission before-hand and choose the rooms to place.
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Jim Patterson
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Beholm wrote:
I thought that a BETTER way to handle expansions would have been if they had designed the board to be modular... Each mini-board could have been a room or set of rooms that connected to other rooms as desired for the game. If the number of rooms were somehow connected to the number of players OR the number of characters per side used, then you wouldnt be fighting the same map(s) each time, expansions could have been produced cheaper and replay ability would have been better. The only problem would have been the color-dot line of site system. But if each room were PRINTED in a color, and hallways with symbols representing LOS from the hallway were made, it might have worked. It would have also allowed a WIDE variety of rooms to be created with some back-story connected to that particular room. That way the story behind the mission is "written" by the rooms used and how they are placed. It would also allow a person to design a mission before-hand and choose the rooms to place.


Modularity would truly be an achievement.
 
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Daniel Smith
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Modularity shouldn't be that hard to implement. Every path on the board is not a different color only paths that are adjacent are different. This means that the paths shared between the modular pieces could all be the same color as long as they are not adjacent on their own board.

I traded my copy of the game away some time ago. The results of nearly every attack was a fatality or a maiming so severe that the character was unimportant afterward. While realistic, it made the huge variety of weapons frustrating because each attack was calculated slightly differently and each weapon had to be looked up for every attack. I'm not sure how to address this and keep backward compatibility. Maybe just replace the reference sheet for weapons in the new rulebook with new values that produce more than 3 three possible results (missed, severely maimed, dead.) On the other hand, the calculations for the weapons could be streamlined to make the process easier. I like the variety of weapons; they just need to have more than three results. If that were addressed in the new version I'd buy a new copy and (probably) every expansion afterward.
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J B
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Well in the first of my views I would like to cover off the map & the pathfinding system.

Personally I think they should do away with the circles/pathfinding system and move to standard squares. I know some will not like this idea and I am not out for a war on the topic but I think it is actually now one of the things that holds the game back. My reasoning is below.

The system takes away 50% of possible board movement. This means less room for manuever, massive wastage of space & very limited use of the possible board. In some ways the you could view the PS system making the map a waste of money. I also do not like the way furniture has no movement possibility. In most games it would act a cover terrain which is something else I will come on to in another post. The PS system also becomes very familiar after a while and loses it's initial impact to become quite boring. I also believe to some extent the system dumbs down some of the combat mechanics making for a less interesting/fun game.

Some will also say how the PS system makes line of sight so easy. I would say this is a moot point. I play a number of other games and yes occasionally you have to get the sewing thread out to work out a tricky LOS but this takes a few seonds. The point of keeping the PS system for the sake of LOS is a weak one in my opinion. Especially when you think of the playing area that could be gained and all the extra fun you could have arguing about LOS..

The maps are currently made on a very thick card stock. This makes them quite heavy and they could quite easily make them a lesser thickness e.g. Like Okko ones. This would make them much lighter making it easier to transport the game and cost less to produce both of which are issues.

I also like the idea of modular maps but I am not sure how well they would translate in Tannhauser. It would take very careful map planning to execute but yes I would most definitely be in favour. I would love to see the castle expanded e.g. the grounds outside. That Dirty Dozen scenario is waiting LOL. Once again TOY may have missed a trick.

The lack of maps is seriously holding the game back. 4 maps released since the game came out was a terrible move by TOY and one that FFG need to address rapidly after they get the latest one out to the rest of us outside France. The issues mentioned above may be part of the reason for TOY not getting maps to market quick enough. The cost of design, materials and weight I am sure would be factors.

Lastly I believe the whole game could do with a shake up from top to bottom. I will make some more of my opinions known in further posts. Yes maybe I will be playing devils advocate in some area's but they are relevant and I don't think FFG or players will be doing themselves or the game any favours by ignoring them. If the current format of the game was a total winner then I am sure both this and the FFG forums would be hives of activity. As we all know this is not the case meaning Tannhauser has a serious retention problem. Why is this? I don't believe it is down to just the lack of new characters, maps or expansions.

 
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Brian Modreski
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Quote:
Personally I think they should do away with the circles/pathfinding system and move to standard squares.


The pathfinding system sounds handy, but the simple fact is in a more conventional LOS system played in primarily cramped indoor environments with narrow corridors where figures don't interfere with LOS, LOS will be trivially simple anyway.

I don't see that getting changed though - its pretty integral to the system!

I agree on the boards; I'd happily trade some of the thickness and quality of the boards for a bit more quantity.
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J B
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Quote:
but the simple fact is in a more conventional LOS system played in primarily cramped indoor environments with narrow corridors where figures don't interfere with LOS, LOS will be trivially simple anyway


Spot on!

Quote:
I don't see that getting changed though - its pretty integral to the system!


Which could potentially put Tannhauser back where it is already.

Quote:
I agree on the boards; I'd happily trade some of the thickness and quality of the boards for a bit more quantity.


We want more
 
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b. portly

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It's been said critiques are simply prejudices made public. If you can't see the merit the pathfinding system has in streamlining a the game, I doubt you will ever be convinced, and it's no ones job to convince you. Pathfinding takes care of range, area effect, line of site, player arguments, and avoids slowing down play.

I think the whole pathfinding discussion is a little too speculative begin with. I'm very sure FFG isn't foolish enough to abandon the pathfinding system. This is a core mechanic. If you don't like it, all you are saying is you don't like the game, but it has nice fluff. If that's the case, go read a book, they are 100% fluff. I like the system and the fluff is the icing.

I don't want FFG to produce crummy paper maps, and here's why: playtesting. Cheap paper maps are easy to produce, so not much thought or playtesting go into their creation. I've heard many players of CMG complain about broken unplaytested maps proliferating the hobby. If a company has to pony up funds to make a REAL map board, it can't be dud. Anyone remember FFG's downloadable Tannhauser map?

Chimera, you focus too much on the players it has not attracted, and not the players that enjoy it. If you try to please everyone you usually end up with a mediocre and homogeneous product. In reality, I think that the slow release schedule and poor support are the reasons Tannhauser turned off a few players. FFG now has an opportunity to fix things.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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I put a couple of variants here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/269668

The pathfinder system is good, but suffers from poor design decisions: Make the colour ring wider, so it's easier to see, and don't put similar coloured areas next to each other - make sure each area is completely different to it's neighbours.
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J B
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To keep things simple it would be better if anyone who did have an idea posted that idea/opinion on the duplicate thread on the FFG forum link below. You never know you may have the ace in the pack & while it would be amazing if FFG did interact on their forum, I wouldn't expect it. At the same time I wouldn't be surprised if they did review the comments. It would be a shocker to know they had no interst LOL.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

Thanks to those who have psoted here already and I would urge you to pop your idea on the FFG thread.
 
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Cicil M
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The rules are impenetrable. I had never used the pathfinder system before and I think I read the manual five times before getting an idea of the basic rules. I still don't know whether you can take the other players objectives or not, and I am not always sure of what spaces are adjacent to one another or if doors block the granades and such...
The main problem is the French narrative style that is poorly translated. I had to speculate what each description meant often based on brittle logics. That is a shame, for the game is really beautiful and good fun. I enjoy dice games, as you might have figured, I am not a rocket scientist.
I also miss a more user-friendly board of token descriptions, again with logically clear explanations.

Cool game, though.
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Ken K
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The icons used in Universal Head's reference pack for weapon range/type is frickin excellent. I'd like to see something like it become standard for the game.

 
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W. Tan
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1. Brighter boards (currently hard to discern circle colors)

2. Rules at front of rulebook, flavor text at back (currently, flavor text is mixed with the rules)

3. Methodical presentation of rules (currently, rules are presented FAQ-style. Also, there is a bombastic tone which the rule book could do without)

4. Equipment rules summarized succinctly on the tokens themselves, either on the back, or on the front with item graphic faded out

5. Simplify objective accomplishment rules

Currently, there are a lot of good ideas, but the execution is poor. Somewhere down there is a great game, hopefully second edition will realize this potential.
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