Rolling bad dice in wargames since 1977
United States
Austin
Texas
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We're fighting the Ring Wraiths to decide the game!
Round Three: Ring Wraiths play the Ranged card "Fall Back: Next round, if your opponent plays a Melee card, it is cancelled." (Hero's Round Three card does nothing to negate this effect.)
Round Four: Thalin plays the Melee card "Sweep: This card cannot be cancelled."
Neither side is exhausted. Does Fall Back pre-empt Sweep? Or does Sweep ignore all cancellations???
We ruled that it gets through. Is there an authority or experienced player that can shed any light on this? Is that the correct ruling? Or what are we missing?
Thanks in advance!
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Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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Sweep doesn't get cancelled. A card which says you cannot do something supercedes a card that says that you can do something. Otherwise, there would be no point!
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Joe Schlimgen
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
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If you were in the Finale, you should be fighting the Ringwraiths to decide the game.
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Rolling bad dice in wargames since 1977
United States
Austin
Texas
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You're right. We did fight the Ring Wraiths. I'll edit the post.
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Eric Schiedler
United States
Austin
Texas
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BradyLS wrote: We're fighting the Ring Wraiths to decide the game!
Round Three: Ring Wraiths play the Ranged card "Fall Back: Next round, if your opponent plays a Melee card, it is cancelled." (Hero's Round Three card does nothing to negate this effect.)
Round Four: Thalin plays the Melee card "Sweep: This card cannot be cancelled."
Neither side is exhausted. Does Fall Back pre-empt Sweep? Or does Sweep ignore all cancellations???
We ruled that it gets through. Is there an authority or experienced player that can shed any light on this? Is that the correct ruling? Or what are we missing?
Thanks in advance!
The FFG FAQ does not address this question, which is an excellent question because the rulebook is unusual in addressing it, but nevertheless quite clear. On page 28 and 29, in the Combat section, it states that you resolve a round of combat by taking steps in order:
1) Choose cards
2) Reveal cards
3) Calculate Strength
4) Previous Round Abilities (Hero first then Sauron)
5) Current Round Abilities (Hero first then Sauron)
6) Deal Damage
Thus, I argue that the rules say that a "Fall back" special power from a previous round takes effect completely before all current round abilities from both players, including before the current round special power from "Sweep" takes effect.
That means that "Sweep" will always be cancelled by the Zealot "Fall back" card (of which there are three in that deck); it will be cancelled by the Ravager "Fall back" card (of which there are two in that deck); but it will NOT be cancelled by the "Earthquake" Behemoth card (of which there is one in that deck). The "Earthquake" card cancels all cards in the current round, which would not happen during step 5 because the hero's ability would take place first.
This means that the hero's "Sweep" special power is only good against one card in the Sauron decks. Admittedly, that is limited.
On the other hand, the Sauron player can play a "Sweep" from the Behemoth deck and it too can be cancelled from a previous round from the hero's ability. For example, Eometh has "Fall Back" cards that if played in a previous round would cancel the Sauron "Sweep". But in addition, Eometh has "Evade" cards that will cancel an opponent's melee card in the current round. These too would cancel the Sauron "Sweep" because the special effect of the Sauron card takes effect after the Hero's current round card. Thus it is the Sauron card that has totally useless special power. The error in the cards lies there.
Now, a future FAQ would resolve this issue. Let's say it resolves it to say that the "Sweep" is not cancelled by "Fall back". It would also have to resolve whether a Sauron "Sweep" is cancelled by "Evade".
Granted, by my argument, the "Sweep" special power is weak (but the other cards that can cancel it are stronger).
The gameplay is interesting whether or not the card can or cannot be cancelled (which would also apply to other ranged cards that cannot be cancelled). You make choices that can be countered or not countered depending on the cards in the other player's hand.
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Matthew M Monin
United States
Branford
Connecticut
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
That guy
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This has been addressed by the designer, who has stated that Sweep can never be canceled, ever (unless playing the card puts you over your strength total).
-MMM
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Posted Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:38 am
