Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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In Railroad Tycoon and Railways of Europe, the publisher failed to match the colors of the cubes to the colors of the cities.
Did they manage to mess it up for a third time?
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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From this image and comments, it appears that, yes, they failed again.
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John Oliver
United States
West Virginia
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From what I understand the colors are better. There is still a little confusion between blue and purple cities, but the company has made the purple cities a more pinkish purple, while the blue is considered a more royal blue. All of the other colors worked out fine and had no confusion in game.
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Pasta Batman
United States
Tustin
California
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Ollieo83 wrote: ... the company has made the purple cities a more pinkish purple, while the blue is considered a more royal blue ...
What's hilarious is that now some folks are having trouble discerning the purple from the red in dim light. How many tries does it take FRED to get something right?
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Rick Holzgrafe
United States
San Jose
California
"the understandably frightening and chimeric semicolon" -- HiveGod
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dcorban wrote: From this image and comments, it appears that, yes, they failed again.
Have a look at the real thing before passing judgement. I own a copy, and even in dim light, all six city colors are quite distinct. The red is dark and rich, the purple is a much lighter magenta, the blue is a distinct blue.
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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The problem isn't that the cities are too similar in color. The problem is that blue cubes match the purple city in color (or vice versa, it's been a while). These games are notorious for this problem, so much so that it was a big deal when Mayfair revealed that the cubes and cities in Steam were actually the same color.
*edit* Looking at the above image, you can see that the purple cubes are very close in color to the purple cities. Look at the purple cube sitting directly next to the blue new city tile.
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Robert
United States
Boca Raton
Florida
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I just received my copy of Railways of the World today. I can confirm that the "blue" cities more closely resemble the purple cubes and the "purple" cities are more pink than purple. However, this is not really a big deal. I just ordered 25 pink cubes from meeplepeople.com for a total of $6.25 (including shipping) and I will be using those in place of the blue cubes when playing on the Eastern U.S. and Mexico maps. (I also got Rails of Europe - the colors of the blue and purple cities on that map are much better matches for the cubes).
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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It just seems really odd that their solution for the color confusion was the make the purple cities more pink instead of changing the city colors to match the cubes.
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Robert
United States
Boca Raton
Florida
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One small flaw in my plan to use pink cubes instead of blue... the blue and purple "new city" tiles are actually colored the proper shades of blue and purple (i.e., what the board should have been). If they weren't going to fix the colors on the board, couldn't they at least have remained consistent with the coloration on the tiles?
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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I lol'd.
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Robert
United States
Boca Raton
Florida
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I found a simple solution which will allow you to use pink cubes (in place of blue) on the Eastern U.S. map and not have any confusion with the coloration of the "new city" tiles. Simply cut out 6 additional, properly-sized, white hexes from the leftover frames (there is plenty of extra cardboard for this), then color 3 of them pink and 3 of them dark purple to better match the board. Call me anal-retentive, but I am happy now.
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David P.
United States
Newtonville
Massachusetts
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Here are some close-ups showing the difference. I think that it might quite a difference and every game I have played people have had trouble with the colors.
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Pasta Batman
United States
Tustin
California
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Funguy wrote: Here are some close-ups showing the difference. ... It would be interesting to see pics like this with the whole color range, and include the associated city tiles too, since rfeldstr is reporting a color discrepancy between the city map hexes and the associated city tiles.
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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The whole thing is ridiculous. I found Railways of the World for a decent price at a local store last week and almost bought it on impulse. I give up on these clowns. I don't have personal experience with trying to get painted cubes to match printed colors, but obviously it can be done (Mafair did it on the first try). This is their fourth attempt (assuming they even tried) at matching the colors and they still can't figure it out. For a game where matching the colors to the cities is a primary focus, it is unacceptable.
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Rick Holzgrafe
United States
San Jose
California
"the understandably frightening and chimeric semicolon" -- HiveGod
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dcorban wrote: The whole thing is ridiculous. I found Railways of the World for a decent price at a local store last week and almost bought it on impulse. I give up on these clowns. I don't have personal experience with trying to get painted cubes to match printed colors, but obviously it can be done (Mafair did it on the first try). This is their fourth attempt (assuming they even tried) at matching the colors and they still can't figure it out. For a game where matching the colors to the cities is a primary focus, it is unacceptable.
Emphasis added.
Dan, I have to disagree. I'd like it if all my games were perfectly made, but some of them aren't (and not all of those were made by Fred). The question is not "is the game perfect" but rather "is the game playable".
I've had years of pleasure from my original Railroad Tycoon game. The boards were a bit warped when I got them; a few days under a pile of phone books fixed that. The color of the blue cities was off; so whenever we had a new player, we'd explain that, point out the colors of cubes and cities, and that was that. No problems actually playing the game at all.
The same can be said for Fred's Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization edition, another one often maligned for its production errors. Yeah, it would have been great if they'd just gotten it right in the first place. But they sent us the missing extra bits for free, and the misprints were easily ignored.
Both of these games are among our very favorites. We don't find that the imperfections affect gameplay at all. I'm very glad that we didn't shun them.
(Disclaimer: I have a business relationship with Fred these days. But I purchased both of the above games, and rated them highly, long before that relationship existed.)
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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Through the Ages is another ridiculous example. They haven't gotten that one right after several printings as well. In fact, it was even worse because they spent money printing and shipping a fix pack, then turned around and still made the exact same errors in the subsequent printing!
Cmon. This is literally the third chance they have had to fix the color matching in their railroad game. Not only did they fuck it up again, but they printed yet another shade of colors on the new city tiles. It's so laughable.
Railroad Tycoon was semi-excusable, since it was Eagle Games on their own and it was the first in the series.
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Daniel,
I am sorry you are unhappy with the game. I oversaw the production, and I must say, I tried my best to fix these items. I take full responsibility for the slight color differences in the game.
I am not one to post excuses, and please do not think what I am about to type is that, but I feel I should be able to clarify.
Plastic molds hold color differently than wood or paper. Since we use 3 mediums here, all of these items will darken or lighten slightly during their respected processes.
Ink takes to a board differently than it does a card or paper. Plastic color is injected under heat. Wood soaks paint differently than all the above.
The only *possible* way to get these colors close are to use a pantone guide and a CMYK number (which we use on every production). I assure you, I color match EVER single item, city, cube, plastic, ect. for every game I work on. Sometimes the end result lightens or darkens just a touch. Adding gloss to a board, or a laquer to wood also augments color.
Without finishes on wood or a gameboard, colors would fade or rub off. I agree, the differences between the three are their, but I do not feel they are catastrophic or not able to be determined. I would rather have a product that last over time (because of a finish) even if it means the colors lighten or darken slightly, but that is my opinion. We could opt to not treat our wood or boards, and I am positive the colors would match --but-- they would start to rub and wear over time. To me, a game should look nice, last and play well.
I know of many game companies out there that are trying hard and doing their best, and let us all remember that, in the end, they are all gamers, just trying to make gproducts for their fellow gamer, and have fun.
Sean
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Scott Petersen
United States
St. Louis Park
Minnesota
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Sean, thanks for the explanation. I sympathize with the difficulty of getting the varied mediums to match. I assume the printer/bit makers provide you with sample "proof" copies of all the materials. Are they correct at this step? Does the error appear later?
Please continue to improve your quality control process as your games will benefit greatly.
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Pasta Batman
United States
Tustin
California
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I do have a better appreciation now for how difficult such seemingly simple issues are to solve. But they can be solved - look at Steam. I'm not sure what, if any, kind of protective coatings Steam's bits have, but the seem pretty durable to me. Of course, Mayfair opted for no plastic bits - perhaps something to consider for the next print run.
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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I have well-played games which are 10+ years old with no visible wear on the components and matching colors. If you are seriously having trouble with component durability to the point where you mangle color matching due to "lacquer", then changing your business model to not include ultra-low budget Chinese manufacturing may be part of the solution.
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onekccs wrote: Daniel,
I am not one to post excuses, and please do not think what I am about to type is that, but I feel I should be able to clarify.
You're right, none of that is an excuse. Not to personally bash you, but the mistakes your company has made and continues to make are inexcusable.
For a game that retails for $75, this is a joke. Other companies manage to make games that met these basic minimum standards, yet this company fails again and again.
Perhaps this time people will signal their dissatisfaction by simply not buying the game.
I almost bought it the other day. I'm glad I resisted now that I know better.
I mean, look what it's come to: people standing in a store with a box in hand wondering "hmmm, I am hesitating to buy this because of poor quality control in the past."
That's hardly a perception that can do the company good!
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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Favedave1 wrote: I mean, look what it's come to: people standing in a store with a box in hand wondering "hmmm, I am hesitating to buy this because of poor quality control in the past."
This was exactly my situation. I had the game in hand, willing to shell out the retail cost at a local game store, but the publisher being FRED was the sole reason I put the game back on the shelf. I suggest that anyone with any decision making power at FRED/Eagle re-read that sentence. Your company's name on the box was the single reason I did not purchase the game. Not due to any personal animosity toward the company or some sort of negative bias. Strictly based on the production and handling of the Railroad Tycoon series and Through the Ages.
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I appreciate your opinions and have take them to heart. I am sorry you are unhappy with the production quality of a few of our games. We can only try harder in the future.
The only reason I posted on this thread was to let people know we are human, we do make errors, and we are trying to make changes and get better.
Sean
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fierman
Netherlands
near Nijmegen
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onekccs wrote:
Without finishes on wood or a gameboard, colors would fade or rub off.
Just picked up my copy (after I gave away my Railroad Tycoon to my parents), and I was slightly disappointed to notice that the Mexico map is not finished. Is this on purpose, or is my copy an off one?
As for colours: the red/purple/pink issue doesn't bother me that much, the first thing I do explain to new players is the bonus/exception with red cities anyway, and it is quite easy to remember which cities those are.
I have a bigger problem with the hard to distinguish blue and black, especially when playing under artificial yellow light.
I really have to look carefully to the difference between Detroit and St. Louis for example. I can see this will lead to some confusing and heated debate in future games..
Now, if an extra printing run is planned in the following years, I hope this issue will be fixed for good (so I can give my current copy away as a gift again and buy the new edition )
Apart from this, my respect to you guys for answering the questions on the forum, most appreciated!
RRT is one of my favourite games for sure.
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Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
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On a related note, I played FRED's Age of Steam at BGGcon. Turn one, guess what happened. I planned my entire turn around delivering "blue" cubes. Guess what color they really were. Sigh.
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