I've now played 1830 a whole number of times (n=2). I really love this game. And, normally, I tend to steer away from strategy forums for board games, as I find 99% of the enjoyment of games from figuring them out myself. (I tend to have the masochism down whereby I like to play the US in Twilight Struggle simply to try and find a way to win). But since this is a pretty long game with a steep learning curve, and having 2 kids and a full time career tends to make long games a rare treat,I occasionally with peruse the 18xx forums for suggestions.

I have a few questions though, as some of the suggestions are simply "do this" without much rationale (although many of the suggestions do provide rationale, and I thank people for that).

Suggestion #1: Never / rarely bid on the lowest priced private.
My understanding: The privates are, as far as I understand it, a method to generating income for the player when it is sold at double price to a public company. So by attempting to bid / win a higher priced Private, you are assuring yourself that when you can sell that Private to a Public, you are generating as much player money as possible.

Suggestion #2: C&A should go for at least $200
My understanding: It comes with a free Public stock, and is worth a lot of money (see #1 above). I do not see where the $200 comes from, but maybe I just haven't played it enough to understand where the point of diminishing returns is.

Suggestion #3: Open the early Publics at a low par, and late at a high Par.
My understanding: The early publics are going to lose their 2 & 3 trains at some point and run out of money anyways, being unable to buy the bigger ones. Why waste your own (i.e. player) money on buying shares at a high price, since the whole idea of the game is to maximize player money? Opening the late Publics higher assures that (1) the stocks will pay a bit higher, but maybe more importantly (2) that company will have funds to buy the big trains.

Side note: I know there are a lot of suggestions as to when to open which companies. I prefer to avoid reading this suggestions, I this is something I really want to try and figure out, even if I break this game out 1-2 times a year.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Josh

You might be pleasantly surprised to discover that the strategy guides you are concerned about reading are either misinformed or salted with a very heavy dose of 'but it depends'.



B>

That would actually be pretty nice. I am not a big fans of game where the winning strategy is one method or there is a "best way". What's the point of playing, then, if there is no variant in winning?

18xx, being a game heavily based on butterfly effects, is prone to apparently small variations that create incredibly strong differences in results.

Once I played two matches of 1895 that ended with the exact same track and the exact same stations, with me controlling the same companies. One match I won by $1.5K and the other one I lost by 1K

Most of your questions have answers that depend heavily on the number of players in the game. The value of the private companies in 1830 change significantly based on player count, and likewise base on where the subject player is relative to priority when the first Stock Round starts. In a 6-player game, there's also a significant element of positioning relative to the player who ends up without a private company.



No, not at all true. The only key here is to ensure that enough players are contending the higher-priced companies to ensure that they go for a reasonable cost. The key private companies in 1830 are the C&A (of course) and the D&H. The rest, other than the B&O's liability, are mostly nice-to-haves or small positional/contextual advantages.

Caveat: The B&O is almost never worth bidding on.



That depends heavily on player count and where the C&A player is sitting in relation to priority in the first SR. The more players in the game and the less all the private companies are worth, the C&A in particular. The less players and the more the private companies are worth.



It is largely simple: however much is necessary to ensure that the C&A player cannot float a company in the first SR. Of course in a 3-player game this is irrelevant again as nothing is worth that much. In a 6-player game, the relative locations of the players without a private company and priorit become very significant.

Key rule: In 6-player 1830, never, ever let a player with a large private company (anything larger than $70) float a company in the first SR. I'll let you figure out why.



Again, this is dependent on player-count. The larger the player-count the more fixed this is. The lower, and the the more room there is to play with the par value of the early companies, especially the PRR.



Nope. The key is much simpler: buy more shares. This is why the B&O should never float in the first SR: it isn't worth it. With few exceptions, and assuming no other errors and reasonably good play etc, the player with the most shares in the early and mid-game of 1830 will win. It is pretty much that simple. Thus early shares are cheap so that players may buy more of them.



Then I'll ask the following: When does the B&O president want to float the B&O and when does every other player want it floated? Are those two times the same or different?

@Clearclaw:
Thanks for all your help. While I'm sure it take more and more playing to get a clear understanding of your meanings, I begin to get a feel of what you mean.



Okay, I have a feeling I'm falling into a trap of mockery / stupid newbie player here, but I'll do my best to make an educated guess.

Answering your 2nd question first: I am assuming that most players want ANOTHER player's company(ies) floated when (1) either the president is forced to spend his own money to buy trains to keep up while maximizing their own dividends (assuming they have a share); this would mean to open it early in the game when the 2's and 3's rust. Or (2) when it is going to, in general, cost the president more to get it floated then he would get in returns. Again, this is assuming my simple understanding of the economics of the game to be to force opponents to spend their own money on companies, keep their returns low, and get their trains to rust quickly.

To answer your first question: B&O has a TON of circle cities around its starting point, meaning it can get fairly easily get railheads into those cities for income, meaning it needs bigger trains to be more effective (as you set up a series of stops). E.g. B&O --> Lancaster --> Atlantic City --> Philadelphia --> NY. Seems to you would, even at this minimum, need a 4 train present. So why open it before 4's are available, since you are just going to waste company funds on 2's and 3's?

So to go back to Question #2:
President wants it open later. Players want it opened earlier.

How far off am I, JC?

I'm not JC, but I think you're missing out on how trains and phases play out here. The players with large privates want the B&O to open in SR1. Why? Because the B&O runs first, sucks up 2 trains, and lets the cheap companies (running later, owned by players with big privates), buy the first 3 train, sell their privates, and have more money to invest in SR2. The B&O player can mitigate this by either holding off opening until SR2 or by building north instead of south and buying only a single 2 train. Either are plausible depending on how many players are in the game and on what publics they opened.

If the B&O president builds south and buys three 2's in order to make big money on OR2, he just handed a pile of money to his opponents on which they'll be able to see an immediate return, whereas he'll have to wait. Moreover, they're most likely going to take that money in SR2 and invest it in the highest returning stock - the B&O, which they'll promptly sell in SR3 in order to open a second public, trashing the B&O's stock value.

Although not relevant to 1830, per se, I was playing a game of 1856 today with a group of friends with very limited 18xx experience. I have played many games of 1830, and I'm rusty because most of them were 15+ years ago and I'm relearning things. However, 18xx is a bit like falling off a bicycle. Now, unfortunately we didn't finish the game (time constraints) and I was set up with 2 very good companies and probably would have won.

At any rate, I was "educating" them on some things, such as buying and selling another company's stock just to lower the price and sometimes even selling my own company's stock so that it would run when I wanted it to run in the OR. When we were getting ready for the train rush, me and another guy opened new companies. He started his first, I made sure to put mine at the same par value so he would run before me. He was forced to buy the last 4 train, I got the first 5 train.

I gush about 18xx to these guys, I think they are just starting to see it how I do...there are just so many layers to the game, I think someone used the "butterfly effect" term above that interact. When to run in a round, when to open a company, how many trains to buy, whether to build blocking track, whether to take income now or a better route, all combine for an incredible gaming experience.

The B&O private pays $30/OR. That's better than any single share, even without stock appreciation. The B&O president really wants to float it as the 5-trains come out, ideally immediately buying two 5-trains. None of the other players should ever let this happen as such a player will almost certainly win. That $30 is too rich, and that $1,000 in capital too valuable to let it hang out that long, and getting two 5-trains is already a near-certain victory.

Starting the B&O in the early game, especially in the first SR and buying three 2-trains is a great way to lose the game and come in second. The B&O shares are simply too expensive. With good players such a player can come in a nice healthy second, but unless there re gross errors in other's play, will not win as they'll have too few shares in the early game. The challenge then is to float the B&O early enough to remove the B&O private's income, but late enough that its capital isn't squandered. Somewhere in the third SR is about right.

I understand the second paragraph of your statement, but lemme see if I get this above paragraph.

In order for the B&O to operate/run first on the first OR, it is either parred higher than $67 (which is a waste of player money early in the game) or be floated first if parred at $67, correct? Since the B&O private comes with the presidents share, it will typically open first, since only 4 more shares need to be floated. ???There is incentive for the player with the private B&O to get it open, or he is simply sitting on the presidents share not generating income???

?It also seems like since the B&O private will shut down once the first train is bought, it isn't great private to buy, as you cannot sell the private?

Okay, that makes more sense to me. I'll need to play it out a few times to see it, but the logical progression of it is clearer to me now.

The winner of the B&O private sets the par for the B&O. This is typically $100, or in very rare cases, $90. It won't be less: they paid $220+ for that private plus president's share after all, and they want to realise value on it. Why pay $200+ for a president's share that you then value at $134 by setting the par at $67?



With rare exception the B&O is never bid on. Instead the player with the least private income is forced to buy it when the privates resolve.

You don't bid on the lowest priced private, you purchase it.



When bidding on privates, your goal is to open a company in the fewest turns possible.

SC = Starting Cash
Ap = Amount spent on privates
Pp = Per turn Payment by privates

SRn Cash = SC - Ap + (n-1)*Pp

If SRn Cash >= $402 Then you can start a company unassisted.
Else If SRn Cash >= $335 and no one has started PRR Then you can start PRR.

You can't count on someone helping you start your company, so its not a part of this calculation. Generally, you want n to be as small as possible. n = 3 is a gamble but it can work. If n > 3, you are likely to lose and you should avoid it. The higher the number of players, the higher n can be. Since Ap directly affects n, paying a large amount on privates can be risky. Thats balanced out by the amount the privates payout plus the amount your company spends on them. Privates are valuable so there is incentive to bid higher.



Early in the game, the trains are cheaper so the companies don't need as much cash. The natural goal is to maximize the amount of $$$ you are getting. More shares generally make more $$$ so getting them cheaper makes sense.

Late in the game, companies need more $$$ and the share limit comes into play, so you want better shares. It makes sense to open your companies for more (usually late companies always open @ $100).

The game is so dynamic that there are no "sure win" strategies. You really need to react/respond to what your opponents do and take advantage of what you get. Try to work with people on track development and place your station markers wisely.

I would only bid on the C&A and D&H - the rest I would buy at the offer price. I generally don't like to buy the B&O but will take it if it's available @ par.

I love to get the C&O if I can because it operates well with a single 2 train. 2-trains have a way of disappearing quick while 3-trains seem to last forever. I usually try and make my first company my lead company and if I am lucky enough to get a 2nd company I use it to boost my primary company.

The reason the C&A is nice is that you can raid your first company and often have enough money to float a second company with the proceeds from the C&A - this is the main reason people like it - you can win the race to get a 2nd company opened first.

But these are just preferences - I usually don't have the luxury of getting the C&O and in a 6-player game rarely get a 2nd company. I rarely bid high enough to get the C&A.

When I win, the primary reason is usually because of my secondary investments. You need to run your company well, but knowing when to hold and fold your other investments is very important.

This is especially true in the four player game, where players start with $600 each. Forcing the price up to $200 (or more) ensures that the C&A owner does not start a company in SR1 (unless he/she is given the chance to start the PRR).