ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round.
It's amazing what you miss when you have others teach the game, or when it's late and don't bother applying logic 
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Michael Kefauver
United States
Saint Charles
Illinois
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Can't say I did, really. Even if you go by 'farthest beyond wins', then the player who finished first would obviously keep going, and be several boards ahead by the 'end', lol.
But yes, I can see how you messed that up, espically low on sleep.
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Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
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To answer your question, no. But we did fudge some other rules first trip out. However your final comment did catch a nerve and does raise the issue of reliance on an individual being the sole means to explain the rules to a group.
In my experience, this time consuming and onerus task invariably is shouldered by the minority in a gaming group. I'm lucky to mix with three different groups of gaming friends and the set up is different for each;
1/ The game is usually hosted at a friends house. The game is always pre-announced and he goes to enormous lengths to research a new game both by digesting the rules, cross checking on GBB to sort out anomolies and then produces a concise pamphlet of the rules for each player to cross reference during the game. Invariably 100% of the rules are understood pre-game.
2/ A weekly gaming group where people turn up with a bag of games and that evening's entertainment is decided dependant upon numbers and preference. The usual protocol is 'you brought the game you explain it.' Some in the group are excellent at this job, a minority lack the necessary comunication skills to distill their understanding of a game (which they have often played 3-4 times) and just read the rules out (zzzzz), others, even though they aren't in the driving seat explaining and are effectively being taught the game for the first time have pre-read the rules before coming out and have an understanding of whats going on.
3/ A group I see every 3 months for a weekend of games. Until recently it was me who invariably owned the game being played and therefore explained it. Since experiencing game group '1' I've tried to emulate the player aids produced there, however the big difference here is that no fixed games are on the agenda so I have far too many games with neatly printed set-up sheets and glossy aid cards that have never seen the light of day, because someone didn't turn up, numbers were skewed and we ended up with something else on the table. I try to e-mail out rules before the weekend, but there is one player who never reads up before hand and to be blunt he's the one who really needs to have done his homework most. We waste far too much gaming time teaching the game to one person who is rather slow to pick up the nuances of whats going on. In recent months its been too painful an experience and we've just reverted to old favourites that we know he understands.
Rambling crap, so what's the point? Well its a big ask and alot of commitment for one person to wade through a rule book, make sure they fully understand it and then convey that information to a group efficiently. Even with the best mistakes occasionally occur. I think you need to learn lessons from the past and the group needs to take more responsibility for understanding a game;
1/ If you have a person who does push the boat out to understand a game and produce player aids, don't take them for granted and try to rotate this job.
2/ Try find out whats going to be played and read up on a game before you play especially if its not you tasked with explaining it. If possible print off a set and take them with you.
3/ Reading the rules is not explaining them, people will fall asleep.
4/ Make sure you understand the explanation before the game starts, politely ask for unclear sections to be repeated and challenge what appear to be inconsistancies. By all means grab the rules and check it for yourself.
There's alot of room for self help to ensure a game is played properly and its way too easy to point the finger and say the poor sap who was up until 1.00AM pre-reading up on it got it wrong.
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Uisge Beatha
Scotland
http://www.thekanofoundation.com/
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Some great points there, which apply across the board - worth re-posting under a different heading/forum so they get the attention they deserve.
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David Larkin
England
Brighton
Sussex
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I generally find that read rules - play game (making a few errors) read rules play game right, usually works.
Getting it demoed at Essen before you buy helps  , failing that getting the bits out and running through a few turns playing all the players helps with the understanding.
I find it is not unusal to make the odd minor error the first time you play, forgetting the start cash in Colonia (I am not alone in doing that though), not realising that you could ship into opened areas in Endeavour (not my mistake) and in Snow Tails not realisng that there was a right way and a wrong way to lay out a bend until someone crashed into it 
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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No. I got this rule right from the beginning. What I had a harder time with was figuring out how to determine if you were properly shifting while moving around a corner.
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Michael Coene
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
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ColtsFan76 wrote: No. I got this rule right from the beginning. What I had a harder time with was figuring out how to determine if you were properly shifting while moving around a corner.
Agreed.
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Mandy Heiser
United States
San Rafael
California
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ackmondual wrote: ..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round. It's amazing what you miss when you have others teach the game, or when it's late and don't bother applying logic
I totally thought that - I still kinda do. The rules say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered first.
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Larry Welborn
United States
Anderson
South Carolina
My new 36g aquarium -- Danios, Platies, Corys, and Ottos.
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Cheesechick wrote: ackmondual wrote: ..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round. It's amazing what you miss when you have others teach the game, or when it's late and don't bother applying logic I totally thought that - I still kinda do. The rules say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered first.
Think of it this way. Player A crosses the finish line first. Next round, no one else crosses the line. Player A unhitches his dogs from the sled. Next round, no one else crosses. Player A feeds and water his dogs and packs up. Next round player B crosses the finish line and ends 30 feet past Player A.
Why would player B be declared the winner?
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Mandy Heiser
United States
San Rafael
California
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Larry Welborn wrote: Cheesechick wrote: ackmondual wrote: ..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round. It's amazing what you miss when you have others teach the game, or when it's late and don't bother applying logic I totally thought that - I still kinda do. The rules say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered first. Think of it this way. Player A crosses the finish line first. Next round, no one else crosses the line. Player A unhitches his dogs from the sled. Next round, no one else crosses. Player A feeds and water his dogs and packs up. Next round player B crosses the finish line and ends 30 feet past Player A. Why would player B be declared the winner?
I agree that player A SHOULD be the winner, but the rules really make it sound otherwise when they say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered "first" even if they're not the person who crossed the finish line first.
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Larry Welborn
United States
Anderson
South Carolina
My new 36g aquarium -- Danios, Platies, Corys, and Ottos.
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Cheesechick wrote: Larry Welborn wrote: Cheesechick wrote: ackmondual wrote: ..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round. It's amazing what you miss when you have others teach the game, or when it's late and don't bother applying logic I totally thought that - I still kinda do. The rules say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered first. Think of it this way. Player A crosses the finish line first. Next round, no one else crosses the line. Player A unhitches his dogs from the sled. Next round, no one else crosses. Player A feeds and water his dogs and packs up. Next round player B crosses the finish line and ends 30 feet past Player A. Why would player B be declared the winner? I agree that player A SHOULD be the winner, but the rules really make it sound otherwise when they say that whoever is furthest past the line is considered "first" even if they're not the person who crossed the finish line first.
Here are the rules:
"At the end of a round, all players who have crossed the
finish line have finished the race.
The player furthest passed the finish line wins the race and
is considered first. This may differ from the player who
crossed the finish line first."
I don't see how that can logically be read to mean that someone who finishes in a later round but travels farther is the winner. It clearly means that if two or more players cross the finish line on the same turn, then the player who travelled farthest past the line is the winner.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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It is what is known as the "tie-breaker" which so many people seem to have trouble comprehending these days.
All it is trying to do is ensure that everyone has an equal amount of turns. Whoever has finished at the end of a round wins. If there are multiple finishers, the one who traveled furthest wins.
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Mandy Heiser
United States
San Rafael
California
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Ahh I see! Somehow my eye skipped over the "in a round" bit.
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Dan C
United States
Florida
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Quote: Ahh I see! Somehow my eye skipped over the "in a round" bit.
My friends (new to boardgames) bought this game and taught it to me that way - everyone keeps playing until everyone passes the finish line.
Since I had played many Euros I was suspicious - most of the time (not all) every player is given the same number of turns in these games. Else, I can just go slow as Christmas through the whole track, not hitting anything, and take twice as many turns as you and still win because I went further past the finish line? Something didn't seem right.
So I picked up the manual and noticed the "in a round" bit and showed it to them.
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Cameron Chien
United States
Rancho Cucamonga
California
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ackmondual wrote: ..... instead of the player who finished in a round before all other players? The "finishing furthest beyond the finish line" being one of the tie breakers in the case multiple players cross the finish line in the same round.
No, because "first across the finish" = "winner" is standard convention in racing.
Cameron
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Erik Racer
United States
Urbandale
Iowa
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Really late to this party but I also played this wrong the first time (and it really irritated me so I came to BGG to get the scoop ... thanks for setting me straight). I think the confusion stems from the line immediately following the rules quoted earlier.
Game end
At the end of a round, all players who have crossed the finish line have
finished the race.
The player furthest past the finish line wins the race and is considered
first. This may differ from the player who crossed the finish line first.
If the sleds are tied, then the sled to the side of the track nearest the
chequered flag wins. Play then continues onto the next round, and so on,
until all players have finished the race.
Emphasis is mine (but formatting is from the rules). I think if they would have finished that sentence with ... to determine the remaining point positions. it would have been clearer.
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Ty Herrington
United States
Kansas
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In our 5 player game, 2 racers finished the round past the finish line while the remaining racers crossed the line the following turn. Do completed racers in a round remain on the track for subsequent rounds? In our race, we kept the first 2 racers on the track which prevented racer #3 from going as far as he could thereby giving racer #4 the opportunity to scoot by and nab third place.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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tyrone123 wrote: In our 5 player game, 2 racers finished the round past the finish line while the remaining racers crossed the line the following turn. Do completed racers in a round remain on the track for subsequent rounds? In our race, we kept the first 2 racers on the track which prevented racer #3 from going as far as he could thereby giving racer #4 the opportunity to scoot by and nab third place. I'm gonna say NO. I don't imagine that the sledders just stop after the finish line. Nor would NASCAR racers, race horses, etc. I would gander they just either move further down far enough, or move and stop to the side as to either way no longer be an obstruction.
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Erik Racer
United States
Urbandale
Iowa
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ackmondual wrote: tyrone123 wrote: In our 5 player game, 2 racers finished the round past the finish line while the remaining racers crossed the line the following turn. Do completed racers in a round remain on the track for subsequent rounds? In our race, we kept the first 2 racers on the track which prevented racer #3 from going as far as he could thereby giving racer #4 the opportunity to scoot by and nab third place. I'm gonna say NO. I don't imagine that the sledders just stop after the finish line. Nor would NASCAR racers, race horses, etc. I would gander they just either move further down far enough, or move and stop to the side as to either way no longer be an obstruction.
We had this same discussion as well after our first play through. I agree with ackmondual that you should remove the sleds that completed the course at the end of the turn.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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Agree with both posts above. You stay on through the round you complete, determine order, and then remove your pieces so the game can continue for those that haven't finished.
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Robert Sheets
United States
Oregon
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The sleds that cross the finish line in a given turn stay on track just long enough to determine finish order and are then removed. We have always played it that way.
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