Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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I've created this thread for the benefit of those (like myself) who may want to see all the confirmed information about the third RftG expansion, vague as it may be, or to find a link to clarify the half-remembered information they've seen or heard somewhere.
I've included only information that is directly attributable to those involved in creating or publishing the game, specifically: Tom Lehmann, Wei-Hwa Huang, or Jay Tummelson/Rio Grande Games; or from anyone who is fortunate enough to get an early copy of the game! I'll try to keep this original post up to date as more information comes to light, or existing information I've missed is brought to my attention.
- The publisher description and image of the game cover can be found on the Rio Grande Games website.
http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=357
- The title is "The Brink of War", and the release date is roughly late April, according to Rio Grande Games.
Source: http://www.riograndegames.com/news.html?id=14
Some copies have been fast-tracked into the US and given as prizes at the Gamestorm convention:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- Preview by designer Tom Lehmann has been posted on Boardgamenews.com.
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
- The expansion will include 48 new game cards, a replacement Galactic Federation card, 6 action cards, goals and solitaire counters, and rules for drafting with up to 6 players. It will not include any action cards for additional players.
http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=357
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4729823#4729823
- A detailed list of all cards from The Brink of War has been provided by Rob Renaud. Scans of all the cards not available in official previews are also available (some but not all are in the image gallery here on BGG.)
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
Source: http://rftgstats.com/scans/
- A new mechanic called galactic prestige is added to the game.
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4187609#4187609 (video, 6:47 onwards)
Source: http://www.ilsa-magazine.net/wp/leggi-ilsa/ilsa-numero-5/ (p.25)
- Many of the new cards have powers allowing Prestige to be spent (to gain an effect) or earned.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4564490#4564490
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- There is a third game ending condition involving Prestige: if one player has 15 or more Prestige at the end of a round. (There is no alternative victory condition involving Prestige).
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4564490#4564490
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4825503#4825503
- The player(s) with the most Prestige at the end of each turn gain(s) a bonus of 1 VP or 1 VP and 1 card. To allow for this, 5 additional VP chips (regardless of number of players) are added to the pool at the start of the game.
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4802793#4802793
- Each unspent Prestige is worth 1VP at the end of the game. There is also a 6-cost development (Pan-Galactic Affluence) and a goal which reward Prestige at the end of the game.
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4825503#4825503
- Prestige may be part of a player's strategy, but is not required for victory.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4564490#4564490
- An additional action card (Prestige/Search) for each player, which can be used once per game.
It has 2 possible uses:
- provides a large bonus to the regular action you select (requires a Prestige point to be spent)
- search for a card of a specific type (from one of 9 specified criteria)
Source: http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
Source (French): http://trictrac.net/index.php3?id=jeux&rub=actualite&inf=det...
Discussion: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/499058/discussion-about-...-
- 3 new cards based on contest entries submitted by the public: Alien Oort Cloud Refinery, Golden Age of Terraforming, and Universal Peace Institute.
Source: http://www.riograndegames.com/news.html?id=31
- 4 new start worlds: Alien Research Team, Galactic Scavengers, Rebel Freedom Fighters and Uplift Mercenary Force.
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3958492#3958492
Source: http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
Source (French): http://www.trictrac.net/index.php3?id=jeux&rub=actualite&inf...
-5 new 6-cost developments: Alien Cornucopia, Golden Age of Terraforming, Pan-Galactic Affluence, Pan-Galactic Hologrid, Universal Peace Institute.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- 5 new cards (3 unique) which permit takeovers: Interstellar Casus Belli (x2), Rebel Sneak Attack (x2), Imperium Planet Buster.
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4469763#4469763
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- A number of "card flow" powers, such as the "draw then discard" powers on Imperium Fuel Depot, Galactic Power Brokers, and Information Hub.
Source: http://www.ilsa-magazine.net/wp/leggi-ilsa/ilsa-numero-5/ (p.25)
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- 2 new cards with powers similar to Mining Conglomerate's Produce power: Pan-Galactic Affluence and Ravaged Uplift World.
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4247015#4247015
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- A development that costs more than 6: Imperium Planet Buster.
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4519174#4519174
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- Several new cards which let you spend goods for a bonus (outside the Consume phase): Golden Age of Terraforming, Rebel Fuel Refinery and Lifeforms, Inc.
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- 2 cards which reference the Rebel development symbol: Rebel Freedom Fighters and Rebel Council.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- 2 Novelty goods worlds with the Alien keyword, and 1 Rare goods world with the Uplift keyword.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- 5 cards with powers outside the round phases (I-V and $): Alien Oort Cloud Refinery; Black Hole Miners; Galactic Scavengers; Psi-Crystal World; Retrofit & Salvage, Inc.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- A world that's worth a variable number of VPs at the end of the game: Federation Capital (worth 1 VP for each Prestige you have.)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/509634/complete-card-lis...
- A replacement Galactic Federation card, with its VP conditions updated to account for developments costing more than 6 (i.e Imperium Planet Buster).
Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4519174#4519174
- 3 new "First" goals and 2 new "Most" goals.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/4825503#4825503
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
-
Wow! Impressive work.
scwont wrote:
Casus Belli has a new takeover power. Imperium Invasion Fleet does not, though it can be combined with Casus Belli (or other takeover powers) in a very interesting way... ;-)
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Tony Watson
United States
San Diego
California
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Nicely done. I like your well researched and annotated style.
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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Thanks guys, glad to see it's been worth the effort of putting together! Great that there are already some clarifications and additions.
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Jacob Ossar
United States
Massachusetts
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Presumably, there will be imperium military worlds. (The Gathering Storm Rules, pg. 12, describing the Imperium Lords development -- "Note: there are no Imperium military worlds in this expansion (or the base set); this wording is for future expansions.")
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Shawn Woods
Canada
Halifax
Nova Scotia
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Cannot wait to get this. To be honest, I would like more and more expansions just to continue adding to the depth. If Tom makes another game, it will like starting over again. If this game was released, for the first time, with all the expansions, it may be too deep for the casual players. However, adding depth as we go along has felt like a an adventure into an unknown territory. I've never played a game, that I had to keep collecting, that felt this deep.
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Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
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baconcow wrote: Cannot wait to get this. To be honest, I would like more and more expansions just to continue adding to the depth. If Tom makes another game, it will like starting over again. If this game was released, for the first time, with all the expansions, it may be too deep for the casual players. However, adding depth as we go along has felt like a an adventure into an unknown territory. I've never played a game, that I had to keep collecting, that felt this deep.
Agreed. But each expansion added dilutes the deck and can have subtle (or not-so-subtle) balancing effects on the cards. That's why Tom has talked about developing expansion 'arcs,' i.e., groupings of expansions that are only meant to be played with one another. I think there is immense potential for variation within the game, and it's exciting.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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QBert80 wrote: baconcow wrote: Cannot wait to get this. To be honest, I would like more and more expansions just to continue adding to the depth. If Tom makes another game, it will like starting over again. If this game was released, for the first time, with all the expansions, it may be too deep for the casual players. However, adding depth as we go along has felt like a an adventure into an unknown territory. I've never played a game, that I had to keep collecting, that felt this deep. Agreed. But each expansion added dilutes the deck and can have subtle (or not-so-subtle) balancing effects on the cards. That's why Tom has talked about developing expansion 'arcs,' i.e., groupings of expansions that are only meant to be played with one another. I think there is immense potential for variation within the game, and it's exciting.
Quite a few designers are like that. For example, many have asked if Bruno Faiduti was gonna create another expansion for Citadels, but he responded on his site he'd rather work on new games.
IIRC, one interview/podcast mentioned that RGG may have wanted to keep RftG going beyond exp #3. Tom originally had planned for the series to end at exp #2, citing the issue of "streakiness" was overpowering the game. Exp #3 was possible as a compromise, and some creative solutions to streakiness and the whole balance issue.
If any of you played Battlestar Pegasus, people were skeptical about how the Cylon Leader would make the game better. Having a known cylon from the start seems like it would destroy the suspense of a hidden traitor and ruin the game. I had faith the designer would achieve at least minimum level of a good game. He did a pretty good job with the base game.
Or, how about this, it would be like saying going beyond San Juan would've been "too much", but I'm glad RftG did come to fruition. I did NOT mind learning the game it all and has become among mine and many those of several others' favorite games.
If the new story arc works out, then great. It would compete with time with other games, but such is the way it is. If not, then we still have RftG to play.
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Wei-Hwa Huang
United States
Mountain View
California
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scwont wrote: Wei-Hwa Hwang
YM "Wei-Hwa Huang"
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
-
scwont wrote:
- There will likely be at least one Imperium military world.
Source: The Gathering Storm rulebook (p.12)
jossar wrote: Presumably, there will be imperium military worlds. (The Gathering Storm Rules, pg. 12, describing the Imperium Lords development -- "Note: there are no Imperium military worlds in this expansion (or the base set); this wording is for future expansions.")
From a strictly thematic viewpoint, I'd be surprised if this type of world, Imperium military world provides +1 defense in takeovers for Rebel Pact
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Jacob Ossar
United States
Massachusetts
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Well, if you've conquered them by force of arms or subverted them with your sneaky Contact Specialists or something, I can see them contributing to your defense.
Still, Rebel Pact does have that special rebel development icon. Maybe in TBoW there will be a rule that forbids you from having both rebel developments and certain Imperium cards in your tableau simultaneously. Maybe there will also be Imperium developments with a special icon? I could see being allowed to play a rebel development only if you get rid of the offending Imperium card(s), or vice-versa. "We know you have dealings with those rebel scum. If you want us to dispatch an Imperium Invasion Fleet for you, you must repudiate your foolish pact. Immediately."
There might be game balance as well as narrative reasons for a rule like this if a lot more cards with Rebel and (especially) Imperium keywords come into the game, as is likely. Tableaux with Imperium cards and the rebel military worlds that many of them help you to get, along with two or three of the relevant 6-devs, can already score extremely well. Throw in a 6-devs or two for having Imperium military worlds and things might get too crazy without some way to rein in that particular scoring vector.
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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onigame wrote: scwont wrote: Wei-Hwa Hwang YM "Wei-Hwa Huang"
Sorry about that! Corrected.
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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ackmondual wrote: From a strictly thematic viewpoint, I'd be surprised if this type of world, Imperium military world provides +1 defense in takeovers for Rebel Pact.
But, what if the world were militarily significant (in and of itself)? Say, for example, an Imperium Fuel Depot... wouldn't that help the Rebel defenses? ;-)
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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Some further speculation:
scwont wrote:
Some possibilities for what these could reward:
- Novelty worlds, with some secondary focus. (cf. Prospecting Guild, Pan-Galactic League)
- Produce phase powers in general.
- Non-military worlds. (Novelty worlds and production worlds are more commonly non-military than military).
scwont wrote:
There are a huge amount of possibilities here. Powers like this could appear in a different phase; could reward having the least/lowest of something; could have a different reward than cards; could even punish rather than reward.
For example:
II: draw a card at the end of the phase if you have the most developments.
III: +X defense against a takeover if you have the lowest military.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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Tom Lehmann wrote: ackmondual wrote: From a strictly thematic viewpoint, I'd be surprised if this type of world, Imperium military world provides +1 defense in takeovers for Rebel Pact. But, what if the world were militarily significant (in and of itself)? Say, for example, an Imperium Fuel Depot... wouldn't that help the Rebel defenses? ;-)
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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ackmondual wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote: ackmondual wrote: From a strictly thematic viewpoint, I'd be surprised if this type of world, Imperium military world provides +1 defense in takeovers for Rebel Pact. But, what if the world were militarily significant (in and of itself)? Say, for example, an Imperium Fuel Depot... wouldn't that help the Rebel defenses? ;-) Didn't think of it that way. I was moreso thinking in lines of allegiances, but a world on your tableau does represent your possession of it.
I can understand thinking in terms of allegiances; but -- when I was designing an Imperium military world for the third expansion -- rather than introduce a card-specific reference/exception, I instead found another thematic reason why an Imperium military world would still count towards Rebel Pact and then titled the card and designed its powers appropriately.
And, yes, I did go through this exact thought process... ;-)
Then we had to go back and fix Imperium Lords' VP conditions (adding other), which was just before The Gathering Storm went to the translators.
So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range). But that's it.
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range). But that's it.
A development that costs more than 6?
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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scwont wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote:
So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range). But that's it.
A development that costs more than 6?
Ding! We have a winner!
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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Tom Lehmann wrote: scwont wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote:
So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range). But that's it.
A development that costs more than 6? Ding! We have a winner!
While I'm on a roll then: Wei-Hwa's latest Library-style idea broke the power scale? 
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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scwont wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote: scwont wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote:
So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range). But that's it.
A development that costs more than 6? Ding! We have a winner! While I'm on a roll then: Wei-Hwa's latest Library-style idea broke the power scale?
Gong! Nope. ;-)
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Chris Johnson
United States
Azusa
California
One of Alabama 3's finest songs, especially the versions on the single this image is from...
Sweet Pretty M*th*rf*ck*ng Country Acid House Music - All night long!
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scwont wrote: While I'm on a roll then: Wei-Hwa's latest Library-style idea broke the power scale? ;)
Given the themes of the game, what thematic development would cost more than six?
*whistles innocently*
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Brendon Russell
New Zealand
Auckland
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fnord23 wrote: scwont wrote: While I'm on a roll then: Wei-Hwa's latest Library-style idea broke the power scale? Given the themes of the game, what thematic development would cost more than six? *whistles innocently*
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/7/71...
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Randall Bart
United States
Granada Hills
California
I love you
David asked Don to draw this pretty picture of me
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Tom Lehmann wrote: So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes.
Except Gambling World.
Tom Lehmann wrote: For the BofW, we are replacing one earlier card in order to fix an icon in a VP box (a card in the third expansion is now out of range).
As long as your fixing icons, I have at least four other cards I would like you to fix.
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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Barticus88 wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote: So far, we've been able to avoid having to backpatch fixes. Except Gambling World.
Gambling World was always planned to be replaced (due to the need to update the chart) and had card slots reserved for it in the first two expansions, which is why I didn't count it.
In the second expansion, we changed it, in part because of player feedback, but mainly because we thought that the additional complexity could now be tolerated. One advantage of changing it is that we don't need to spend a card slot on it in the third expansion! ;-)
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Posted Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:17 pm
