Disclaimer - This is a new format that I am going to be trying out for my reviews. Instead of breaking down several different portions of the game I will provide a brief overview and then the rest will be thoughts on the entire product. I will not be going over the rules or how to play, though I may highlight a particular mechanic that I really like. The review is to try and give you a good idea whether or not the game is worth your hard earned cash. If you would like to learn how this game is played, I highly recommend downloading the rules and checking it out for yourself. Download them here - http://czechgames.com/en/dungeon-lords/downloads/
Dungeon Keeper was a fantastic PC game that let you revel in being an evil badass. This is something very common in videogames today, but at the time of its release being bad was a really novel idea. The series went on to produce one quality sequel before it faded into videogaming obscurity. Now, prolific designer Vlaada Chvatil has taken the concept of Dungeon Keeper and grafted it into a boardgame known as Dungeon Lords. As a boardgamer this is practically a dream come true.
Overview of the game - Dungeon Lords is a strategic worker placement /resource management/ dungeon management simulator for 2-4 players. The game follows a rigid schedule over the course of two years in which you make dungeon building and maintenance decisions each season. At the end of each year, adventures traverse to your dungeon in an attempt to conquer it. After both years have ended the damages are assessed, titles are handed out and points are tallied to see if you acquire your Dungeon Lord license (which means you've won). The game works well with the built in 2-3 player variants, but plays best with 4. Expect the game to last anywhere from 90-120 minutes.
Personal Thoughts - As a longtime fan of Dungeon Keeper I’m just amazed at how much of the PC game was mimicked into the boardgame. You have imps digging tunnels and mining for gold, trolls in the workshop, traps, payday for your minions, unique rooms to build and much more. The art style is much different than that of Dungeon Keeper, but it’s still mind blowingly awesome. The monsters are drawn in such a way that that they look mischievous, menacing and adorable all at once. Plus you will get a kick out of all the tiny details that went into the main board’s artwork. It’s really amazing stuff. Overall, the components are some of the best you’ll find in any game and really help sell the theme. How can you not love the little baggie of bronze imps? Vlaada and his crew have managed to really nail down the playful tone of Dungeon Keeper perfectly.
However, once you sit down and begin to learn and play Dungeon Lords you will find that it is its own unique beast. The game is far more strategy driven than the adorable artwork on the box will lead you to believe and it isn’t some simple fantasy adventure that focuses on battling do-gooders. Instead, it’s a tightly focused game that really forces you to think. Yes, you do get to maim and capture fancy pants adventurers, but you won’t be rolling no dice. The real meat and potatoes of the game is the “minion’s orders” that must be carried out each season. During this time you’re doing things to hopefully improve your dungeon. This can range from hiring monsters and buying traps to mining gold and breeding imps. Each player is vying for the same available resources and knowing what your opponents can and cannot do during their turn is very important. This part of the game gets very cerebral as you try to use available information on the table to place your orders and get the best available resources. Fail at this and you will likely lose the game. When those heroes do come a knockin’ consider it a graded test as to how well you constructed your dungeon throughout the year. It’s not easy and it will take a while to wrap your head around the “minion’s orders” mechanic. The game becomes infinitely easier once that portion begins to “click” with you. I’ll be honest though, the complexity and learning curve was a big shock to me.
The main board where you'll gather various resources
Luckily the rule book is a real treat to read through. The instructions are over 20 pages long but written so thoroughly that the game actually teaches you how to teach the game to others! It’s brilliant. It’s also witty and humorous. Good thing too because you will need to really go through the rules to grasp everything this deep game has to offer. I really love how the instructions fully explain the meaning behind every symbol involved during resource gathering phase. It’s a hoot to see what they came up with and further helps my enjoyment of the game. Make sure you fully explain these things to new players as it really adds to the thematic enjoyment.
One particular mechanic I really enjoyed was the “Evil-o-meter” track. Basically, being evil is a weird sort of currency in the game. Use it and you’ll hire some of the more powerful monsters or gain food with an extra piece of gold. However, rely on it too much and you’ll get the most righteous, heroic adventurers lining up to decapitate you, drink your blood and stuff your imps as dolls for their spoiled, rotten children. If you’re a REALLY evil bastard the mighty Paladin will immediately track you down. Trust me…you don’t want that prick running through your dungeon unless you’re prepared with ample traps and top tier monsters! The Evil-o-meter is a really great idea and just one of many that makes Dungeon Lords really stand out. It helps create a natural ebb and flow that prevents players from totally dominating. Overall, the game is uber balanced and everyone is on a level playing field. If you want to win you simply must play better than the goons sitting at your table.
Perhaps my favorite part of the game is the way battles are handled. At the end of the year you will have a small party of heroes sitting at your dungeon doorsteps. These can be thieves, warriors, wizards, clerics or the paladin. Each has a special power that will help them conquer your dungeon. Luckily, you have access to wicked traps and your monsters have their own unique abilities. The combat plays out like a puzzle and trying to find out the best way to mitigate your loses is really satisfying. It’s simple, yet very deep. You need to prepare for specific adventures that you see coming or else things will go awry. If there are a lot of pesky thieves don’t try to bludgeon them into submission with traps because they’ll simple negate the damage. If there are clerics roaming the country-side your stable of Nosferatu will be rendered obsolete. There are so many options and its fun to see everyone handle the attacks. It sort of reminds me of your ship getting destroyed from random events in Galaxy Trucker (another Chvatil game).
A vampire minion who will do your evil biddings
Dungeon Lords does take a little while to set up and explaining things to first time players can be a daunting task. There are tons of little rules to remember and people will have lots of questions. The game doesn’t offer instant gratification to the players, but rather it’s a slow, satisfying burn. I normally like games that are real interactive with other players, but being cunning and creating the best dungeon is REALLY satisfying for me. Not everyone is going to like this game do to its complex nature. My girlfriend in particular really doesn’t care for it because she said it felt like a chore to play. Some people ARE going to have that opinion. Personally, I find the artwork, the highly unique gameplay, the stressful choices and the puzzle oriented combat to be a real treat.
Conclusion - If you can’t tell I really adore Dungeon Lords. It’s easily one of the best designed games that I’ve ever had the pleasure of playing. It has layers upon layers of strategy to try out and you’ll constantly be tinkering with your tactics. I will go on record saying that Dungeon Lords is easily the best themed Euro of all time. Agricola and Puerto Rico can bow down to the epic awesomeness of Dungeon Lords. The excellent theme permeates through every aspect of the game and you really feel like you’re in charge of running a dungeon. If you’ve ever wanted to get into Euros, but you hate most of the dry/stuffy themes then you’ll love Dungeon Lords. However, the game is far more “thinky” than the attractive art would lead you to believe. It’s a beautiful brain burner with unique mechanics that is very satisfying to win. I find myself always wanting to play Dungeon Lords. When I’m not playing it I’m usually thinking about how I could be playing it. I highly recommend it.
Feel free to enjoy the original CG intro to Dungeon Keeper...I don't think Dungeon Lords would have been made if it weren't for this amazing PC game
The video does not do the Board game justice. However, the flavor of your review does. This truely is a great game. I have only played it once and scheduled to play it again soon. I will definitly be adding this one to my collection.
The video is from over 10 years ago and has nothing to do with the boardgame. It is a promo for the computer game Dungeon Keeper, and does a decent job of covering the humor and fun of that game.
joefling34 wrote:
The video does not do the Board game justice. However, the flavor of your review does. This truely is a great game. I have only played it once and scheduled to play it again soon. I will definitly be adding this one to my collection.
This is a nice review, but i feel it necessary to forewarn potential buyers that you'll want to play this before you buy it.
The game is well themed euro as the reviewer describes, but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to. This year we saw a handful of well themed worker placement games that just didnt flow that well as a game.
I'm glad that some people are enjoying them game, i just think it's important for gamers to be a little cautious of a blind buy on this title, as the concept is so attractive.
This is a nice review, but i feel it necessary to forewarn potential buyers that you'll want to play this before you buy it.
The game is well themed euro as the reviewer describes, but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to. This year we saw a handful of well themed worker placement games that just didnt flow that well as a game.
I'm glad that some people are enjoying them game, i just think it's important for gamers to be a little cautious of a blind buy on this title, as the concept is so attractive.
Can you expand on those thoughts? Some of us (like me!) have a hard time trying games before buying them, and this theme is awfully interesting.
but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to.
I would just like to take this opportunity to call BS on the quote above.
I too think it is a very, very clever game with a well-integrated theme, but for some reason I didn't expect to bring it to the table very often, if at all. So I traded it away. But I'm in awe of the designer's grasp of designing innovative boardgames (if not in mechanics per se in this case, then in the marriage of those mechanics with that theme).
Dungeon Keeper was a fantastic PC game that let you revel in being an evil badass. This is something very common in videogames today, but at the time of its release being bad was a really novel idea. The series went on to produce one quality sequel before it faded into videogaming obscurity. Now, prolific designer Vlaada Chvatil has taken the concept of Dungeon Keeper and grafted it into a boardgame known as Dungeon Lords. As a boardgamer this is practically a dream come true.
FYI, I've seen several people approach this game with the expectation that it would be like the old Dungeon Keeper PC game. Every one of them had the same reaction on playing the game: "That wasn't what I expected."
Dungeon Lords may be a very good game, but for whatever reason, it doesn't really capture the same feel as Dungeon Keeper. The emphasis on producing and balancing different commodities makes the game feel more economics-ish, and less evil overlord-esque. The infrequency and puzzle-like nature of combat also reduces the Dungeon Keeper feel.
This is a nice review, but i feel it necessary to forewarn potential buyers that you'll want to play this before you buy it.
The game is well themed euro as the reviewer describes, but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to. This year we saw a handful of well themed worker placement games that just didnt flow that well as a game.
I'm glad that some people are enjoying them game, i just think it's important for gamers to be a little cautious of a blind buy on this title, as the concept is so attractive.
Can you expand on those thoughts? Some of us (like me!) have a hard time trying games before buying them, and this theme is awfully interesting.
Hey Steve,
while i like to pat myself on the back for being articulate, i can’t seem to put my finger on any one thing to denote why this game isn’t the bees knees that one might expect.
But maybe this might help. There is some planning, and that’s fun, people like that, but the game doesn’t force you to make a lot of difficult decisions which is often the mark of a fun and replayable game. In many instances your best path/choices I think are fairly obvious. Ultimately, there aren’t many options, nor many monsters, nor many different types of adventures, so after a few plays the ‘magic’ of the game dissipates. It’s also a very solitaire experience, u somewhat compete for resources but I don’t recall having the same tension u will in other worker placement games where many players are competing for the same resource(s)/action(s). A lot of people are ok with solitaire games, personally I prefer more interaction.
People will explain that the game is a puzzle, u kind of build up your dungeon and then attempt to solve the puzzle with what u have built to deal with the adventurers who have shown up at your dungeon, again this sounds fun and there is something rewarding about solving this puzzle but it doesn’t overly mesh well with the precursor of what you’re doing up until that point.
In my experience, people really want to like this game, as the bits are great, the rules are the epitome of well written rules and the game is ultra thematic but after playing you are left with ‘oh, that’s it. Hmm’ feelling. I’ve heard a rumor that the designer was coaxed in making/producing this game and if that happens to be true, I can see where he was coming from. I’m still a huge fan of the designer but this game isn’t for me. I would say that an expansion could actually help to correct a lot of my ‘issues’ with the game, so there certainly is hope.
I don't mind Dungeon Lords, and I want to play it again, but I doubt I'll suggest it myself anytime soon. For me, there's a lot of fiddly moving parts. The status board has like... let me count... 21 spaces to keep track of what's going on in the game. On 18 of those spaces, you're doing nothing but flipping more monsters, adventurers, rooms, events, handing out adventurers, shifting your cards, putting your minions out (already programmed, so no thought here), and executing the actions on the spaces (again, of 8 spaces, only 2 have any choice - monsters and rooms).
There are 3 instances in each season where you place orders. You get to place 3 orders out of 6 possible, and of those 6 possible, you can count on 1 or 2 that aren't necessary for you and 1 or 2 that are vital. So the game really boils down to placing 3 orders out of 4 or 5 down and trying to discern the best order to place them, second guessing your opponents. Which leads to some tough choices, but not as many as I would have hoped.
Long story short (too late!), I'm still hoping that I find more to the game on my 3rd and 4th plays, but it seems like there's as much "fiddle the bits" time as there is "play the game" time, and I find that a bit offputting.
after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to
Think again?
Nah, i've thought about it...and has been a consensus amongst the majority of my gaming peers both locally and at bgg.con, i could change it to.."most people i know...".
Certainly different strokes for different folks, but buyer beware ;-)
but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to.
I would just like to take this opportunity to call BS on the quote above.
Seconded. I can understand not liking Dungeon Lords, but I don't think there is any rational basis for a unilateral declaration that it's poorly designed.
I just wanted to chime in to say that I don't agree with the 'solitaire' comment made above.
I've played the game twice and found myself paying lots of attention to what the other players were up to:
- What cards can't they use this turn? - What resources are they running low on? - Who would be most interested in the rooms / monsters available this round? - Where are they on the Evilometer compared to me? - What heroes am I likely to get and can I stick an opponent with one they're less suited to dealing with? I.e. If I reduce my evil level can I maybe stick the guy on my right who's been collecting tons of traps with the Level 3 thief (who drastically reduces the effectiveness of said traps)? - Who's leading in rooms / imps / resources / etc. and can I take any of their endgame "Lord" points away from them by catching up or passing?
YMMV, of course, but to me there's quite a bit to keep up with while playing.
This is a nice review, but i feel it necessary to forewarn potential buyers that you'll want to play this before you buy it.
The game is well themed euro as the reviewer describes, but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to. This year we saw a handful of well themed worker placement games that just didnt flow that well as a game.
I'm glad that some people are enjoying them game, i just think it's important for gamers to be a little cautious of a blind buy on this title, as the concept is so attractive.
Thanks for the comments. While I won't argue whether the game is elegant or not, I did find it to be very fun. I really felt like the mechanics meshed with the theme and nothing felt pasted on (a big plus for me). Personally, I think the title will go over well with Ameritrash players who have no problem delving into Euros (and vice versa). People who play nothing but strictly heavy Euros or heavy Ameritrash will probably not enjoy it as much. Who knows for sure...thats just a gut feeling.
I agree with "Darklok" that if you can please try the game before you buy it. It is certainly not for everyone and since it is fairly expensive make sure you know what you're getting into.
kingdaddy wrote:
FYI, I've seen several people approach this game with the expectation that it would be like the old Dungeon Keeper PC game. Every one of them had the same reaction on playing the game: "That wasn't what I expected."
Dungeon Lords may be a very good game, but for whatever reason, it doesn't really capture the same feel as Dungeon Keeper. The emphasis on producing and balancing different commodities makes the game feel more economics-ish, and less evil overlord-esque. The infrequency and puzzle-like nature of combat also reduces the Dungeon Keeper feel.
The game is a thinking man's version of Dungeon Keeper. It is heavily inspired and even borrows a thing or two, but the game is it's own unique beast (as I stated in my review). If you love the playful tone and the idea of running a dungeon, than Dungeon Lords will be a real treat. The videogame wasn't just about battles but micromanaging a community of monsters. You had to make sure they had enough food, training rooms, gold to pay them etc...the boardgame cleverly implenments several aspects from the game and I think it works very well.
oberjt wrote:
There are 3 instances in each season where you place orders. You get to place 3 orders out of 6 possible, and of those 6 possible, you can count on 1 or 2 that aren't necessary for you and 1 or 2 that are vital. So the game really boils down to placing 3 orders out of 4 or 5 down and trying to discern the best order to place them, second guessing your opponents. Which leads to some tough choices, but not as many as I would have hoped.
Yes if you boil it down to it's essence the game seems to only be made up of a handful of choices, but I would have to respectfully disagree. Trying to finagle your minions to get the best resources for the cheapest price takes some time to figure out. Also there are plenty of choices within the resources you get. You have to decide on which monsters to acquire or which rooms to buy. You have to decide what to do with your imps and how you want to tunnel out your personal dungeon. You have to see if you need to move down in evilness or if you need to take a peak at the upcoming spells too. Then you have the myriad of choices available to you in combat. I think Dungeon Lords comes across as deceptively simple. However, the more I play it the more I discover different tactics and ideas to try out. I think it has plenty of tough choices and this especially true if you go in with a gameplan. If things go awry how will you adapt so that you can fulfill your plans? Things like that keep me coming back to the game. It's not for everyone, but at the very least I think it's a game that everyone should try at least once.
FYI, I've seen several people approach this game with the expectation that it would be like the old Dungeon Keeper PC game. Every one of them had the same reaction on playing the game: "That wasn't what I expected."
Dungeon Lords may be a very good game, but for whatever reason, it doesn't really capture the same feel as Dungeon Keeper. The emphasis on producing and balancing different commodities makes the game feel more economics-ish, and less evil overlord-esque. The infrequency and puzzle-like nature of combat also reduces the Dungeon Keeper feel.
The game is a thinking man's version of Dungeon Keeper. It is heavily inspired and even borrows a thing or two, but the game is it's own unique beast (as I stated in my review). If you love the playful tone and the idea of running a dungeon, than Dungeon Lords will be a real treat. The videogame wasn't just about battles but micromanaging a community of monsters. You had to make sure they had enough food, training rooms, gold to pay them etc...the boardgame cleverly implenments several aspects from the game and I think it works very well.
I assume that people who said that the game doesn't feel like Dungeon Keeper had actually played Dungeon Keeper, or else they wouldn't have an opinion.
after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to
Think again?
Nah, i've thought about it...and has been a consensus amongst the majority of my gaming peers both locally and at bgg.con, i could change it to.."most people i know...".
Certainly different strokes for different folks, but buyer beware ;-)
I don't put much value on hearsay. Most people in my game group liked it. What does that prove? Nothing, so I don't mention it.
Commenting on your best Euro ever comment. My main games group has a wide variety of gamer types, and let me tell you the heavy Euro crowd have avoided this like a Bog swamp. The theme is too non-stuffy and is too confrontational for their gentle tastes
Yes if you boil it down to it's essence the game seems to only be made up of a handful of choices, but I would have to respectfully disagree. Trying to finagle your minions to get the best resources for the cheapest price takes some time to figure out. Also there are plenty of choices within the resources you get. You have to decide on which monsters to acquire or which rooms to buy. You have to decide what to do with your imps and how you want to tunnel out your personal dungeon. You have to see if you need to move down in evilness or if you need to take a peak at the upcoming spells too. Then you have the myriad of choices available to you in combat. I think Dungeon Lords comes across as deceptively simple. However, the more I play it the more I discover different tactics and ideas to try out. I think it has plenty of tough choices and this especially true if you go in with a gameplan. If things go awry how will you adapt so that you can fulfill your plans? Things like that keep me coming back to the game. It's not for everyone, but at the very least I think it's a game that everyone should try at least once.
~ Bones
I think this is an excellent analysis of Dungeon Lords. I watched Tom Vasel's video review and was really bothered by his comment that he didn't have much to do because the game only has 24 actions. So what? As you point out, the number of actions does not reflect the number of difficult decisions. Tom seemed to miss all the layered decisions that you mentioned above.
Which brings me to my only correction to you analysis. People should play this game at least three times before they pass judgement. The first play is just about internalizing the many rules and getting a feel for the flow of the game. You can't expect to do well on your first play. In fact, you'll probably make a serious planning error that will cost you a lot of points. The depth and beauty of this game's strategies didn't reveal themselves until my third play, when I finally felt like I could cadence my action choices combined with my resource management to really perform well. To score well, you really have to put a lot of thought into each decision.
As you said, there are a lot of moving parts to track in this game. There are a lot of downstream effects of each decision. So, while it's true there are only 24 actions, the importance of each action, and the multiple decisions connected to each action, makes DL a very rich gaming experience. Also, all the moving parts keeps the game fresh from one play to the next.
I'll agree with try before you buy. But try it at least three times, and I bet you'll be buying.
This is a nice review, but i feel it necessary to forewarn potential buyers that you'll want to play this before you buy it.
The game is well themed euro as the reviewer describes, but it's not a well designed euro. This game unfortunately lacks elegance and after a few plays i think most people will agree that there isn't a whole lot worth coming back to. This year we saw a handful of well themed worker placement games that just didnt flow that well as a game.
I'm glad that some people are enjoying them game, i just think it's important for gamers to be a little cautious of a blind buy on this title, as the concept is so attractive.
Can you expand on those thoughts? Some of us (like me!) have a hard time trying games before buying them, and this theme is awfully interesting.
Hey Steve,
while i like to pat myself on the back for being articulate, i can’t seem to put my finger on any one thing to denote why this game isn’t the bees knees that one might expect.
But maybe this might help. There is some planning, and that’s fun, people like that, but the game doesn’t force you to make a lot of difficult decisions which is often the mark of a fun and replayable game. In many instances your best path/choices I think are fairly obvious. Ultimately, there aren’t many options, nor many monsters, nor many different types of adventures, so after a few plays the ‘magic’ of the game dissipates. It’s also a very solitaire experience, u somewhat compete for resources but I don’t recall having the same tension u will in other worker placement games where many players are competing for the same resource(s)/action(s). A lot of people are ok with solitaire games, personally I prefer more interaction.
People will explain that the game is a puzzle, u kind of build up your dungeon and then attempt to solve the puzzle with what u have built to deal with the adventurers who have shown up at your dungeon, again this sounds fun and there is something rewarding about solving this puzzle but it doesn’t overly mesh well with the precursor of what you’re doing up until that point.
In my experience, people really want to like this game, as the bits are great, the rules are the epitome of well written rules and the game is ultra thematic but after playing you are left with ‘oh, that’s it. Hmm’ feelling. I’ve heard a rumor that the designer was coaxed in making/producing this game and if that happens to be true, I can see where he was coming from. I’m still a huge fan of the designer but this game isn’t for me. I would say that an expansion could actually help to correct a lot of my ‘issues’ with the game, so there certainly is hope.
I couldn't agree more here. I just kind of stared at the board when it was over and was literally like "That's it?" A few tunnels, a few rooms, and a whole mess of pieces and gibs to pick up. I appreciate the designer on designing such a beautifully themed game, but I just feel it's lacking in the interesting department. As said earlier, it just feels like everything is mapped out. You need gold? Well you go get gold. And its two years of that and at the end solving a riddle with the adventurers is fun, but it really wears thin quick... and I mean quickly. I wish I could like this game, but it's just too much hassle for not enough result. I go with Tom Vassel on this one.
