Michael Jordal
United States
Austin
Minnesota
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I was lucky enough to get a chance to play Battles of Westeros at the Fantasy Flight Games Event Center opening. Two lucky attendees were chosen to play Battles of Westeros and Two were chosen to play Hours Heresey. My friend Bob was actually chosen for Battles of Westeros, but he kindly let me play in his stead.
I own and have played quite a bit of Battlelore, Memoir and Battle Cry, so I can say Battles of Westeros is actually quite a different beast and I enjoyed it. We only played the introductory scenario, so we didn't get to try all the new mechanics out, but after the game Rob showed us a bunch of the other things that were coming with the core set. Be forewarned that I am probably not remembering all the exact rulebook terminology for everything, so I may call things different names than they will actually be and I believe things are probably still subject to change.
The core set will pit Starks against the Lannisters and comes with 138 figures and lots of cards, plus the terrain tiles, dice and various other punch card tokens. We were playing with a beta copy that didn't have the final components. But the final components we did see were typical FFG quality.
One of the first very noticeable differences are the eight sided dice rather than the familiar six siders. This I believe is a great change and makes a lot more sense. If I remember correctly green units have three sides of the die, while blue has two and red has one and the other two sides have a rally and a wild symbol.
The boards will not have anything on the edges so they can be placed adjacent to each other for larger games in various layouts. Also, some of the scenarios in the core set will be played lenghtwise rather than widthwise.
Also, the victory point track is gone. Now games will be won with specific objectives or a rout. In our scenario the Starks started with two objective hexes under their control that I as the Lannister player needed to control at the end of the fifth turn. The other way to try and win would be a rout. In order to rout your opponent, there is a morale track off to the side that swings back and forth typically when you lose a unit you lose favor equal to its rank. A green unit swings it one space, with blue moving it two and a red moving it three spaces. There is also a way to force march your troops and you can lose morale that way as well. There are also colored ares of the track that you can reset your morale to at the end of each round, so your opponent needs to really kill a lot in one round in order to knock you back to the next level.
Another huge difference is no left, right or center zones and no shared order cards. Instead each player has their own basic deck that has the same cards in it and then gets to add to it more cards depending on the leaders they choose for their army. There will also be different versions of the leaders to represent them at different times with different cards. These leaders also have reference cards and are an actual figure on the board within one of your units that provide special abilities in the game. One is a multi-use ability and the other is a once per game ability.
At the beginning of your turn you can draw three cards from your deck and roll four dice. You will then take a token matching each colored face of the dice you roll each turn. Then on the round you will issue orders in one of two ways. You can play one of your tokens to order one of the matching colored units on the board anywhere or you can play a card. Each of these cards has a cost of generally one command point which you move onto the reference card of the leader you want to use. That leader can command any of the untis within 2 hexes of it's space including it's own unit. The first player to take a turn each round is determined by who spends less of these command tokens, so there is some strategy there as well. The players will take turns ordering units back and forth until both players pass, once a player has passed they will not be able to play again until the next round. Also, each unit must rotate it's banner after it has been ordered to signify that that unit can not act again until next round. There are some cards that can rally these units which allows them to act again, also if any of a player's rolled dice at the beginning of the turn earned them a rally token they can use it to force march any unit on the board which decreases the players morale one spot and rotates the unit's banner back to active, alternatively this rally token can be used to move a players morale back up one space. At the end of the turn players have to discard down to one card and one token.
The terrain overall is pretty similar as well as the dice and movement of the figures based on their colors. One difference is that pursuit is only able to be done once.
Battles of Westeros also add flanking and disengagement. When a unit attacks another unit from an adjacent hex, the player places one of their engagement tokens in betweent the units. Then if another unit attacks from another adjacent hex they get flanking this allows them to reroll any dice of the same face. Also, if either of the engaged units wants to move away or attack a different adjacent enemy, they will suffer an attack from the unit they are engaged with before they make their attack.
The game seems to really capture the world of Westeros and most of the scenarios are actual battles from the books. All of the leaders have their own particular decks that capture their own particular flavor from the books and some of the leaders have multiple cards with differet decks that reflect their flavor at different points in the book.
I am probably forgetting things and I am sure some of my rambling is unclear, so ask questions and I will try to get more information out of my brain and clarify things.
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Nattakorn Vuttichaipornkul
Thailand
Bangkok
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Do we get to play any name characters from the book? That will be important to my enjoyment of the game.
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Sean Shaw
United States
Georgia
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I have no interest in the theme, but I really like what I'm hearing about the actual gameplay, based upon your review above.
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Kevin Sussman
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Thanks so much for the review! This game sounds kinda awesome. I already have Battlelore, which I love, and this sounds like it might even be better. I really like that the map isn't split into three different sections... that's one thing about the C&C games that always kinda bugged me. And the use of leaders sounds really cool.
Do you think this will be worth picking up if you already own Battlelore? Also, I'm not familiar with the books... is there magic? The battlefield magic is probably my (and definitely my wife's) favorite part of Battlelore.
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Rolling bad dice in wargames since 1977
United States
Austin
Texas
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Great review, Michael! I'm liking what I hear more and more!
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The leaders are actual characters from the book.
For House Stark, there's Robb and Eddard Stark, Greatjon Umber, Richard Karstark and Maege Mormont.
The Lannisters have Tywin, Jaime and Kevan Lannister, Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane and Addam Marbrand.
http://thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/ has a few photos of the box.
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Brian Tanner
United States
BIRMINGHAM
Alabama
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Mr_Bickman wrote: Thanks so much for the review! This game sounds kinda awesome. I already have Battlelore, which I love, and this sounds like it might even be better. I really like that the map isn't split into three different sections... that's one thing about the C&C games that always kinda bugged me. And the use of leaders sounds really cool.
Do you think this will be worth picking up if you already own Battlelore? Also, I'm not familiar with the books... is there magic? The battlefield magic is probably my (and definitely my wife's) favorite part of Battlelore.
There is no magic in the Song of Ice and Fire books =/. I believe FFG said they wanted to move away from that, and more towards a "gritty. no magic, medieval game", or something along those lines: http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1122.
However I am really excited about this game! I was going to get Battlelore (I have Memoir '44), but now I may just wait for this to come out. Thanks for the preview =).
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Franklin Turner
United States
Fultondale
Alabama
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bktanner wrote: Mr_Bickman wrote: Thanks so much for the review! This game sounds kinda awesome. I already have Battlelore, which I love, and this sounds like it might even be better. I really like that the map isn't split into three different sections... that's one thing about the C&C games that always kinda bugged me. And the use of leaders sounds really cool.
Do you think this will be worth picking up if you already own Battlelore? Also, I'm not familiar with the books... is there magic? The battlefield magic is probably my (and definitely my wife's) favorite part of Battlelore. There is no magic in the Song of Ice and Fire books =/. I believe FFG said they wanted to move away from that, and more towards a "gritty. no magic, medieval game", or something along those lines: http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1122. However I am really excited about this game! I was going to get Battlelore (I have Memoir '44), but now I may just wait for this to come out. Thanks for the preview =).
Not exactly true. There is magic but so far it has not had any effect on combat.
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Josh Look
United States
Coventry
CT
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This sounds really great. I'm quite fond of C&C:A (not so much of Battlelore), but even then, I have problems with the system. This sounds like it addresses all of them. Can't wait for this game.
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Edward Woods
United States
New York
New York
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Thanks for the detailed comparison. Very helpful. I wish FF had applied some of these changes to the standard Battlore, rather than create a whole new franchise which I personally have no desire to buy into.That being said I understand their reasoning if the whole "Song of Ice & Fire" thing has been a strong product line for them. It just leaves me cold, so to speak.
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Paul Lister
United Kingdom
London
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Sounds like a cool game. Though i am a bit perplexed - we know there is a lot of war in Westeros, but none of the books describe in any great detail individual battles . We know the results of battles, we know that some characters distiguished themselves - but (unless my memory is playing me false - remember the battle against the undead beyond the wall and some sieges) there are not many descriptions of the battles themselves. So apart from the 'Leaders' how will the theme of this game be reflected in the mechanics?
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mateo jurasic
United States
Florida
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your description of the changes in the game seemed to improve on a lot of the things I didnt like about battlelore but we'll see
And personally, Im psyched to have a battlelore type game with a much more interesting and flavorful theme, but I love the GRRM books and characters.
Glad to see its not just a rehash of battlelore with a couple of character cards thrown in.
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Michael Denman
United States
Katy
Texas
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Theme from the books? No, this is just an excuse to give meaning to a medieval combat game. Not that that's a bad thing. Magic and magical creatures are more rare in Westeros than they are in Battelore. Some people will like that and the new combat options in this game. Me... well I just don't want to give up the magic. That's a major selling point to me and I always thought the medieval lore of Battlelore was a boring waste of time. I CAN see BoW as being fun, but I already own Battlelore and only get to play it once every other month at best so why buy into something else like this? Those of you who get a lot more two-player gaming though might enjoy owning both. Do you own Battlelore, Memoir 44, C&C, and Battle Cry? Then why not another. I don't work that way though. I've chosen my path for this type of game and I don't have anything to do with all of those others.
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mateo jurasic
United States
Florida
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oh yeah, did you like it?
Where the heroes/leader cards thematic and fun?
what different units were there?
How did the starks and lannister play differently? Did it feel like a real or cosmetic different, and was it balanced?
thanks
Any idea how Horus Heresy played out? Did people seem to like it?
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Andrew Stingel
Australia
Cairns
Queensland
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I've not read the source novels (yet, I might once the whole series has been published) so the theme is of no interest to me, but I've been considering BattleLore for a while now only have been put off by the number of bits I'd have to buy.
I like that this is a new line entirely so I'll be able to start with a single box purchase (I know I could do the same with BattleLore, but the compulsive completist in me would never stand for it)
sounds like a very likely pre-order/day one purchase for me..
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Jason G
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
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Franklin T wrote: Not exactly true. There is magic but so far it has not had any effect on combat.
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): The Others have magic swords. Combat.
Two skinchangers fought it out with their animal companions. Combat.
Fire-breathing dragons kill people. Combat.
A witch gave birth to some kind of shadow daemon that assassinated the lord of a castle under siege. Combat.
An assassin that can change his appearance at will kills some dudes. Combat.
Then there's a psychic kid..
But yeah, no lightning bolts on the field of battle or anything.
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Michael Denman
United States
Katy
Texas
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freelunch wrote: I've not read the source novels (yet, I might once the whole series has been published) so the theme is of no interest to me, but I've been considering BattleLore for a while now only have been put off by the number of bits I'd have to buy. I like that this is a new line entirely so I'll be able to start with a single box purchase (I know I could do the same with BattleLore, but the compulsive completist in me would never stand for it) sounds like a very likely pre-order/day one purchase for me..
Sorry, but I don't follow you here. BoW is a core set. You're going to get buried under expansions eventually. How is that different than Battlelore? Are you just saying that because of your own compulsive nature than you're more willing to spend MORE money as long as you don't have to spend a lot at once? 
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mateo jurasic
United States
Florida
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freelunch wrote: I've not read the source novels (yet, I might once the whole series has been published) so the theme is of no interest to me, but I've been considering BattleLore for a while now only have been put off by the number of bits I'd have to buy. I like that this is a new line entirely so I'll be able to start with a single box purchase (I know I could do the same with BattleLore, but the compulsive completist in me would never stand for it) sounds like a very likely pre-order/day one purchase for me..
If there is one not yet completed series I would recommend to anyone it is this series.
Seriously, even though its not yet finished, it is awesome.
It has made all the other fantasy series I have read before pale in comparison.
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Andrew Stingel
Australia
Cairns
Queensland
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Trump wrote: freelunch wrote: I've not read the source novels (yet, I might once the whole series has been published) so the theme is of no interest to me, but I've been considering BattleLore for a while now only have been put off by the number of bits I'd have to buy. I like that this is a new line entirely so I'll be able to start with a single box purchase (I know I could do the same with BattleLore, but the compulsive completist in me would never stand for it) sounds like a very likely pre-order/day one purchase for me.. Sorry, but I don't follow you here. BoW is a core set. You're going to get buried under expansions eventually. How is that different than Battlelore? Are you just saying that because of your own compulsive nature than you're more willing to spend MORE money as long as you don't have to spend a lot at once? :)
I'm saying that if I ordered BattleLore today (something I came very close to doing yesterday) I'd want EVERY expansion/add-on up front and I'd be extremely bothered if anything was out of print or otherwise unavailable to me.
By starting with a new core set I'll have nothing else to buy right away. I fully expect to be buried under expansions eventually :)
mateooo wrote: If there is one not yet completed series I would recommend to anyone it is this series.
Seriously, even though its not yet finished, it is awesome.
It has made all the other fantasy series I have read before pale in comparison.
I'm tempted. this game might be just what I need to push me over the edge :)
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mateo jurasic
United States
Florida
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they have made an HBO pilot for the series, and they will be deciding soon if they are going to green light it for a full formal series, so if you are gonna read it, try to start in the next year, so you can get through it before you watch it.
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Michael Jordal
United States
Austin
Minnesota
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mateooo wrote: oh yeah, did you like it?
Where the heroes/leader cards thematic and fun?
what different units were there?
How did the starks and lannister play differently? Did it feel like a real or cosmetic different, and was it balanced?
thanks
Any idea how Horus Heresy played out? Did people seem to like it?
Yes, I really liked it. I have added it to my BGG Wish List as a love to have and rated it a 9. I think it will be my new favorite of the Command and Colors games, even if FFG says this isn't one. It is very different, but I would still put it in the family.
In the scenario we played I had Blue Infantry, Blue Cavalry and Green Cavalry. My opponent had green archers, infantry and cavalry and a little blue infantry as well. Basically he was outgunned, but the onus was on me to take the objectives from him in 5 turns. I know that the Starks are going to have a kennel master special unit and the Lannisters are going to have a super heavy sword unit that will only get hit by red symbols and not wilds.
The way the houses play differently is in their special characters. They have their own special abilities that add flavor and they add their own command cards to your deck.
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Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
California
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How generic is the game? Could it be used to fight generic medieval battles outside the context of Game of Thrones?
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Marshall Miller
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
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mateooo wrote:
If there is one not yet completed series I would recommend to anyone it is this series.
Seriously, even though its not yet finished, it is awesome.
It has made all the other fantasy series I have read before pale in comparison.
I really liked Melany Rawn's Exile series (book 1: 1994, book 2: 1997, book 3: soon, please!). I would describe the series as what would happen if GRRM was born as a woman. Check it out.
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Evgeny Reznikov
Israel
Haifa
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The units - probably. But it also has leaders that are themed to fit the Westeros universe. You can retheme those, i guess.
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Michael Denman
United States
Katy
Texas
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I'd say you could BoW for generic medieval battles... just a easily as you could use your Battlelore for Westeros battles.
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