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Campaign Manager 2008» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Deck building (Let's see if I can finish this) rss

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Moisés Solé
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Some time ago there were a couple of posts like this one, but while I found those posts highly interesting, sadly they both seemed to die mid-way through the idea.

My experience with this game is still quite small, but I think a thread like this can help the newbies. What I'm going to do is simulate a deck drafting of both decks, and while I'll show what I'd pick, that doesn't mean that I have the absolute truth, or that I don't want to hear otherwise, so of course feel free to disagree with me if you'd pick something else.

And without further ado, let's start with the first three cards.

McCain
Country First: Discard any number of cards to shift a different state for each toward Defense.
Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
Change Is Coming: Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.

My pick: Although the Issue Control may prove useful, one can't let go the idea of shifting different states at the same time. I need to be sure of getting ways to draw cards, but I'm picking Country First.

Obama
Welfare To Work: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
Weekend Ad Blitz: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
The Audacity Of Hope: Discard any number of cards, then draw the same number of cards and play one of them.

My pick: We got two identical cards here, but the third card is really interesting, letting you renew your hand without loss of tempo. So I'm picking The Audacity Of Hope.
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Max Jamelli
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For McCain: I would go with Change is Coming. It allows me to change any issue to the other (which can be the last thing I need to do to win a state or seriously block a win)

Obama: I like the gain one/shift cards. I like to have one (or two if possible) in my hand. It would depend on which draw this was. If I've gone through the deck and I know I had to pick cards I wasn't thrilled with, I would go with Audacity. If this is the first pick, I would probably take one of the other two -- Weekend Ad Blitz I'll go with.
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Greg Schmittgens
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Go figure. I would have picked Divided We Fail. Getting an early draw of Demographic Support that affects 5 states would make the rest of my deck selection easier.
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Max Jamelli
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GS in KS wrote:
Go figure. I would have picked Divided We Fail. Getting an early draw of Demographic Support that affects 5 states would make the rest of my deck selection easier.


I usually shy away from the demographic cards -- maybe I shouldn't. I don't know. I just think the odds have to be right for these cards to be successful and without looking at the states (I don't know them offhand) I don't know how many of those states start out with the demographic of seniors.
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Moisés Solé
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The card itself lists them. Interesting how basically all the cards in this first draw got a mention.
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Max Jamelli
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referee wrote:
The card itself lists them. Interesting how basically all the cards in this first draw got a mention.


No, I meant the state cards themselves (the CO, MN, NH, WA, and WI cards) -- do they start with the key demographic of Seniors.

Maybe set up a poll to allow votes for each round.
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Jonathan Dyer
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The states in bold start with that key demographic assuming they don't get shifted by a ZNN card when they come in to play.
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Moisés Solé
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The polls are interesting, but don't let the voters comment, so we don't know why they would pick this over that.

Also, the idea is that I draft the decks, but it's interesting to see what other decks people would have drafted instead.

Anyway, pick two.

McCain
Deck So Far: Country First.

Straight Talk Express: Discard any number of cards to gain a support in defense in a different state for each.
We Don't Have Time For On-The-Job Training: Discard two cards to gain two defense support in a state, then roll the die.
Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards.

My pick: No contest here. With a message discipline card in my deck, even more so. We always need cards in hand, so Private Fundraiser is a no-brainer.

Note: I don't know what comes in the decks. I have a shuffled deck, and I haven't looked past the current point.

Obama
Deck So Far: The Audacity Of Hope.

Bring The Troops Home: Shift a state toward either issue and alter its key demographic.
Colin Powell: Gain a support in defense, then draw a card.
The Fundamentals Of Our Economy: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.

My pick: This one is tricky. The negative die tactic is interesting, but I think it's good to at least put a token fight in the opponent's "home turf", so to speak, so I'm going with Colin Powell here.
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Max Jamelli
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I figured we could comment under the poll like the TGIF poll, but it doesn't matter.

My picks:

McCain so far:
1. Change is coming (Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.)

The pick: Private Fundraiser. I always go for the draw 3 card, no matter what else I see.

Obama so far:
1. Weekend Ad Blitz (Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy)

The pick: I like the Fundamentals of the economy, but I also like the Colin Powell card because you get a two-fer - A support and a card. I do believe there are multiple cards that allow Obama to get into Defense and also draw a card, so I'm going to go with the powerful negative card and hope my dice don't hurt me. Fundamentals of Our Economy.
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Greg Schmittgens
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My picks:

McCain –

1) Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
2) Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards. – Like they said, no brainer

Obama –

1) Welfare To Work: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
2) Colin Powell: Gain a support in defense, then draw a card.

I tend to shy away from negative campaigning and, while I like getting some demographic support, I seldom take a card just to switch it.
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Interesting comments, guys. Time for pick three.

McCain
Deck So Far: Country First, Private Fundraiser.

Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac: Gain a support in economy, then draw a card.
The Right to Life: Undecided voters where the demographic is Catholics become Red. (MI 17, NH 4, NM 5, OH 20)

My pick: Interesting set here. While I mentioned before the idea of putting some fight in the opponent's strong suit, having a media support card is important, it thins the deck if it remains in play, and stops the opponent of doing the same with his cards. For all this, I go with Mend Fences With FOX.

Obama
Deck So Far: The Audacity of Hope, Colin Powell

Yes We Can: Discard any number of cards to shift a different state for each toward economy.
Judgement To Lead Gain one support in the minority issue and shift that state toward its minority issue.
Online Fundraising: Draw three cards.

My pick: Another easy ones. Having the Audacity of Hope lets me let go Yes We Can more easily. Although all three cards are quite interesting, nothing beats Online Fundraising.
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Greg Schmittgens
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My picks:

McCain –

1) Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
2) Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards.
3) Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

Obama –

1) Welfare To Work: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
2) Colin Powell: Gain a support in defense, then draw a card.
3) Online Fundraising: Draw three cards.

Like referee said, two easy picks. It seems like controlling the Breaking News event gets me a couple states per game. Especially when my opponent wins a state (new state is drawn, I control the Breaking News, then place support to win the state affected by the news).
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Max Jamelli
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McCain so far:
1. Change is coming (Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.)
2. Private Fundraiser. (draw 3)

The pick:

I agree - media is important. Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News


Obama so far:
1. Weekend Ad Blitz (Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy)
2.Fundamentals Of Our Economy: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.

I like the Judgment card, but really a quick pick with Online Fundraising: Draw three cards
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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referee wrote:
having a media support card is important, it thins the deck if it remains in play, and stops the opponent of doing the same with his cards.


Interesting point. I like media support cards for controlling the news, but that rationale hadn't occurred to me.

I agree with these two picks, although taking FOX would be an easier call had you taken Change is Coming in the first draw. Missing out on Fannie & Freddie wouldn't be so bad if you had more ability to shift away from Economy.

Neat thread, keep it up!
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Moisés Solé
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What would you have picked, Marc?

Pick 4.

McCain
Deck So Far: Country First, Private Fundraiser, Mend Fences With FOX.

Direct Mailing: Alter the key demographic in a state, then draw a card.
The View: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Red. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)
P.U.M.A.:Undecided voters where the demographic is Clinton Democrats become Red. (NJ 15, NV 5, PA 21, WV 5)

My pick: OK, so the deck wants us to go demographic. We'll have to attach a demographic alterer later, but picking one first would kinda force my hand later. Between the two demographics presented, and given that both NJ and PA are states that start with a blue advantage, I'm going to get The View.

Obama
Deck So Far: The Audacity of Hope, Colin Powell, Online Fundraising.

McCain: Out Of Touch, Out Of Ideas: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.
This Week: Shift a state toward either issue, then draw a card.
Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

My pick: The interview card is interesting, but the same rationales that I set on McCain work here too, so I'll go with Special Access.
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Max Jamelli
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A rough draw...

McCain so far:
1. Change is coming (Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.)
2. Private Fundraiser. (draw 3)
3. Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News

The pick:
Direct Mailing: Alter the key demographic in a state, then draw a card.

I usually don't do demographic cards, and here are 3 that deal with demographics. I would probably go with Direct Mailing because I can draw a card with it - or discard it with a later choice.

Obama so far:
1. Weekend Ad Blitz (Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy)
2. Fundamentals Of Our Economy: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.
3. Online Fundraising: Draw three cards

The pick:
Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

I already have a negative card that allows me to take 2 economy support and I like having a media control card.
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Greg Schmittgens
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My picks:

McCain –

1) Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
2) Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards.
3) Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
4) The View: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Red. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)

Again, it affects five states. I might have passed on it, except all the cards were demographic in nature. I just hope there’s not another ‘all demographic’ set.

Going with Max’s undemographic approach, I understand his choosing Direct Mailing. But in the kind of deck I’m building, it’s just a pause in the action to discard and draw.

Obama –

1) Welfare To Work: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
2) Colin Powell: Gain a support in defense, then draw a card.
3) Online Fundraising: Draw three cards.
4) Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

And now Obama has Media Support.
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Max Jamelli
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GS in KS wrote:
My picks:

McCain –

1) Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
2) Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards.
3) Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
4) The View: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Red. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)

Again, it affects five states. I might have passed on it, except all the cards were demographic in nature. I just hope there’s not another ‘all demographic’ set.

Going with Max’s undemographic approach, I understand his choosing Direct Mailing. But in the kind of deck I’m building, it’s just a pause in the action to discard and draw.


I usually try to favor the grind-it-out, 3 yards and a cloud of dust approach. I'm not sure if it's a strong approach or not because the competition I've played against plays that way as well. Will be interested to see how it plays at WBC this summer.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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referee wrote:
What would you have picked, Marc?


McCain:

Change is Coming
Private Fundraiser
Mend Fences With FOX
The View


Obama:

The Audacity of Hope
The Fundamentals Of Our Economy
Online Fundraising
McCain: Out Of Touch, Out Of Ideas


I like the media support cards, but I like the negative cards even more. I found in a recent game that playing them back-to-back can be devastating. Obama will need to look out for some cards to shift issues, though, with Judgement to Lead out of the deck and no way to add support in Defense as of yet.
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Pick 5 now.

McCain
Deck So Far: Country First, Private Fundraiser, Mend Fences With FOX, The View.

The Original Mavericks: Gain one support in a state's minority issue, and shift that state toward the minority issue.
Youth Outreach: Undecided voters where the demographic is Under-30 Voters become Red. (IN 11, OR 7, VA 13, WA 11)
Stay Accessible: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

My pick: This one is made easier by previous picks. I don't want to commit much to a demographic (and the demographic we got is more friendly to Obama), and I don't think we need a second media support card. Even without those conditions, however, The Original Mavericks is a great card to bring the states back to the Defense territory, where we should be stronger.

Obama
Deck So Far: The Audacity Of Hope, Colin Powell, Online Fundraising, Special Access.

Women For Obama: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Blue. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)
Wesleyan Commencement: Undecided voters where the demographic is College Graduates become Blue. (MI 17, NC 15, VA 13)
Main Street Vs. Wall Street: Gain a support in economy, then draw a card.

My pick: It looked like it was going to be an all-demographic set, and although one of the demographics is very nice, I'm not sure the deck we're building would want to steer in that direction. Thankfully, Main Street Vs. Wall Street is a nice basic card to add to your deck, so in it goes.
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Greg Schmittgens
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My picks:

McCain –

1) Divided We Fail: Undecided voters where the demographic is Seniors become Red. (CO 9, MN 10, NH 4, WA 11, WI 11)
2) Private Fundraiser: Draw three cards.
3) Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
4) The View: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Red. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)
5) The Original Mavericks: Gain one support in a state's minority issue, and shift that state toward the minority issue.

Right up there with the ‘Gain Support and draw a card’ as the best way to take a state

Obama –

1) Welfare To Work: Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy.
2) Colin Powell: Gain a support in defense, then draw a card.
3) Online Fundraising: Draw three cards.
4) Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
5) Women For Obama: Undecided voters where the demographic is Women become Blue. (IA 7, MT 3, OH 20, OR 7, WI 10)

Obama already has two ‘Gain Support’ cards, so I’ll take some Demographic Support. Interesting; this will set up direct competition with McCain (although neither player knows it). One player will possibly select a state because of the demographics and the other player might have the card.
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Max Jamelli
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McCain so far:
1. Change is coming (Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.)
2. Private Fundraiser. (draw 3)
3. Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News
4. Direct Mailing: Alter the key demo in a state, then draw a card.

The pick:
I have Mend Fences so I don't really need Stay Accessible. I shy away from Demographic cards, so this is an easy pick for me as well. I'll also go with Original Mavericks: Gain one support in a state's minority issue, and shift that state toward the minority issue.

I like it because it's a two-fer card. If you need one more support and the arrow is pointing 1 spot to the other side - you can win a state with one card and it's a gotcha-type card.

Obama so far:
1. Weekend Ad Blitz (Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy)
2. Fundamentals Of Our Economy: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.
3. Online Fundraising: Draw three cards
4. Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.

The Pick:
Again another quick pick. I'm shying away from demographics and Main Street vs. Wall Street gives you a two-fer support/draw. Main Street vs. Wall Street: Gain support in Economy and draw card.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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Agreed on both of those. I've now got:


McCain:

Change is Coming
Private Fundraiser
Mend Fences With FOX
The View
The Original Mavericks


Obama:

The Audacity of Hope
The Fundamentals Of Our Economy
Online Fundraising
McCain: Out Of Touch, Out Of Ideas
Main Street Vs. Wall Street
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OK, we're moving onto pick 6 now. The picks that are coming from other people are quite interesting too.

McCain
Deck So Far: Country First, Private Fundraiser, Mend Fences With FOX, The View, The Original Mavericks.

An Enduring Peace: Gain a support in defense and alter the key demographic in that state.
Drill, Baby, Drill: Gain a support in economy, then draw a card.
Reform, Prosperity, Peace: Gain an support in economy, then shift that state toward economy.

My pick: Even though economy is Obama's strong point, it's good to show some capability to fight there, so that we don't make things too easy for him. That's why I'm picking Drill, Baby, Drill from this set.

Obama
Deck So Far: The Audacity Of Hope, Colin Powell, Online Fundraising, Special Access, Main Street Vs. Wall Street.

The Iraq War Has Made Us Less Safe: Gain a support in defense and alter the key demographic in that state.
Middle-Class Tax Cut: Gain a support in economy, then draw a card.
Staying On Message: Gain a support in a state's majority issue and shift that state toward the majority issue.

My pick: Interesting decision on this one. The majority issue card is a 'win more' card, which could be interesting to have. Since the other card would likely help in the same cases, really, I will go with the ads here, so Staying On Message it is.
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Max Jamelli
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McCain so far:
1. Change is coming (Shift a state 2 spaces toward the minority issue.)
2. Private Fundraiser. (draw 3)
3. Mend Fences With FOX: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News
4. Direct Mailing: Alter the key demo in a state, then draw a card.
5. Original Mavericks: Gain one support in a state's minority issue, and shift that state toward the minority issue.

The Pick:

I go Drill Baby Drill as well. Not only because you need to make things tougher for the other guy - but there will be other chances for JM to get support in Economy and there will be key states that economy is winnable. Plus - any card that lets you draw a card is value.

Drill, Baby, Drill: Gain a support in economy, then draw a card.

Obama so far:
1. Weekend Ad Blitz (Gain one support in Economy and shift the state toward Economy)
2. Fundamentals Of Our Economy: Discard two cards to gain two economy support in a state, then roll the die.
3. Online Fundraising: Draw three cards
4. Special Access: While it remains in play, you may choose which state is affected by News.
5. Main Street vs. Wall Street: Gain support in Economy and draw card.

The Pick:

I really want to take Middle Class Tax cut. I would love to combo tat with my main street card and just keep ticking away at economy while drawing cards. But I do like the versatility of staying on message - gives you support in either issue, but this is more of an offensive card as it shifts the issues even further. Using this to defend against "defense" (how strange is that) only further embeds defense as the key issue. That said, I still take it because of that versatility. It is a strong offensive card that can help embed economy for BO. - Staying On Message: Gain a support in a state's majority issue and shift that state toward the majority issue.
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