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Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Retrofit & Salvage, Inc. Discarding required? rss

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R. Sangalang
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Daly City
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Retrofit & Salvage, Inc
2 cost Novelty production world, 1 vp
II -1 cost to develop
Round end: After discarding, take all other players' discards into your hand and keep them

P1 has Retrofit and 9 cards
P2 has 12 cards
P3 has 15 cards
P4 has 4 cards

P1 does not have to discard
P2 discards 2 cards
P3 discards 5 cards
P4 does not have to discard

P1 does not get 7 of the discarded cards since he has not discarded this turn? Or does he receive those cards regardless if he discarded or not.

Is it assumed that P1 discards 0 cards (thus fulfilling the discarding requirement)?

 
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Rob Neuhaus
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P1 gets cards regardless of whether or not he discards himself.
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Tom Lehmann
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rrenaud wrote:
P1 gets cards regardless of whether or not he discards himself.

Correct. The "after discarding" is a timing reminder that A) if the R&S player himself is over the hand limit, he does have to discard down before collecting cards from other players and B) if collecting discards from other players puts the R&S player over his hand limit, nothing need be discarded until the end of the *next* round (as R&S has already discarded for the end of this round). Does this make sense?
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R. Sangalang
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Rob and Tom, thanks for the reply and clearing up the issue. "After discarding" is the ambiguous part that can be interpreted to require the discard (instead of just a timing reminder).

I understand why you wanted the reminder there: to specifically point out that you get the cards after your original limit is checked (10 or 12) and allowing you to start the next round with more than your hand limit.

 
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Tom Lehmann
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Obviously, the card reminder text is brief and I can see the ambiguity you are referring to. However, the full text in the rules (page 14) seems pretty clear to me:

"After discarding as needed to satisfy his hand limit, the player draws other players' hand limit discards (if any exist) into his hand.

The player, after doing so, can exceed his hand limit."

Did you also find these rules ambiguous?
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R. Sangalang
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It is ambiguous because you can draw a line of thought to reason another meaning:

"After discarding as needed to satisfy his hand limit, the player draws other players' hand limit discard."

A player does not always have to discard. Therefore, if no discarding happened, there could be no "after."

If it is assumed that a player discards zero cards, then there is always a discarding, and always an after discarding; but then, that is an assumption and not specified.



Overall, I took it at it's original value and believed it would always allow the collection, but I could not defend it with the rulebook because it can be argued the other way.

Thank you again for clearing it up.
 
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Pawel Kaluza
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Well, there goes my RftG authority! I spent half an hour arguing for my interpretation saying you DO have to discard in order to take other's cards. The details that were for my interpretation were: after setting HIS... (sorry, don't have the rules in front of me) and then the paranthesis: if such exist. They MUST exist if discarding took place. The only exception to it, is if the bearer of the card triggered discard, when noone else did it.

Thanks for the explanation though. I will now have to apologise and will never be trusted again.:soblue:
 
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Johan Haglert
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Is this only full-hand discards or payment discards to?

I assumed the later?
 
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mar hawkman
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could you rephrase the question? I'm not sure what you meant by it.
 
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Johan Haglert
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marhawkman wrote:
could you rephrase the question? I'm not sure what you meant by it.

I do understand that end game is the last phase as in:
I
II
III
IV
V
END GAME

I know you discard down to a card limit of 10 in the end game and obviously this card let you pick up others discards afterward (but then after the next round in the end game of course you'll have to discard down to 10 again and so on.)

But I would read it as all others discards during this round. As in also payments to settle worlds or lay down developments (probably not consume or traded goods?)

But now I got the impression it may only be discards from the end game phase, as in only hand limit discards? You don't pick up others payments for settling and developments but only from hand limit discards? Or both? All cards discarded during the round? Even goods?



In short:
For this card - does discard only mean hand-limit discards if there has been any or does it also mean other peoples payments for settlement or developments?
 
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mar hawkman
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Ah, I see.

yeah it's just hand limit discard. when players discard due to hand size, you get the cards the other players discarded. It's only for cards discarded during round end.
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Johan Haglert
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Thank you. Then it make sense and isn't all to powerful and people can counter it and so on.

To get to pick up all cards thrown into the discard pile seemed way to powerful considering the cost
 
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ackmondual
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aliquis wrote:
Thank you. Then it make sense and isn't all to powerful and people can counter it and so on.

To get to pick up all cards thrown into the discard pile seemed way to powerful considering the cost
And the other players' discards are only for the round before. If the R&S Inc. player doesn't spend his surplus of whatever his hand limit is, he'll lose them at the end of the next round, unless he has a new wave of discards from other players coming his way.
 
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Johan Haglert
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Yeah, that it wasn't the whole stack I got, and also that the hand limit is true for you (but pick-up happening after your own hand limit discard.)
 
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