Ondrej S
Czech Republic
Praha
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I do not get one thing. It is allowed to publish here on BGG game with such a controversial theme, but it is not allowed to discuss the theme in forum, that belongs to this game? Is it really politically correct?
Sure, that general discussion about RSP themes should be in RSP forums, but if a game is directly handling such a theme, the discussion should not be banned or locked.
BTW, i do not think that statement "Theme of this game is terrible" is in any way breaking the community rules.
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Steven Isaak
United States
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what is CO2?
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Gregory Smith
United States
Newark
California
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alaskaspi wrote: what is CO2?
Seems like an odd question, I am not sure it isn't a joke... but just in case it is serious:
Carbon Dioxide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxid
The game: CO2
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Chun Ping
Singapore
Singapore
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the OP is referring to the other thread
As good as this game may be mechanically I won't be getting it.
i dont really understand why it was locked too. any one can please shed some light?
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Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
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Because it's going to turn into a flame war between the scientists and the right-wing denial crowd.
See? Just like that!
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Marc Pulles
Netherlands
Eindhoven
Unspecified
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I like this 'actual' theme very much.
I hope that the game would be published because it's looks great!
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Brent Mair
United States
Roy
Utah
I won this badge from Daniel Karp in a poker game.
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Windopaene wrote: Because it's going to turn into a flame war between the scientists and the right-wing denial crowd.
See? Just like that!
I'm not biting.
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Ted Torgerson
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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Quote: what is CO2?
Spooky plant food.
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Tomas Inguanzo
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
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There is a difference between reasoned discussion and ignorant trolling, and accusing the entire climate science community of being part of a sinister Communist conspiracy that's trying to seize dictatorial power by frightening the public with a purely fictional global warming crisis is ignorant trolling.
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James Hébert
United States
Topeka
Kansas
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It is both funny and sad at the same time.
You may or may not care for a game's theme, but enjoying the game has nothing to do with whether you buy into the theme or not. Nor does a game-boycott have anything to do with global warming, whether you agree or disagree that it is occurring.
I don't believe zombies exist, but I think Last Night on Earth is terrific.
I don't like war, but I think Memoir 44 is a fantastic game.
I don't drink, but I think Bootleggers is a fun game.
Hey, let's all boycott our local BP gas stations, that'll show the parent company who's boss! And when your neighbors are out of work because their employing station shut down due to lack of business, keep in mind how you've struck a blow against BP.
Right.
To the OP, I think it may need to be stated that "I think the theme is this game is...etc." Blanket statements tend to have a polarizing effect on people, which may be one reason the thread was considered to have started spiraling downward.
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Richard Hoover
United States
Indiana
Pennsylvania
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hrhtomas wrote: There is a difference between reasoned discussion and ignorant trolling, and accusing the entire climate science community of being part of a sinister Communist conspiracy that's trying to seize dictatorial power by frightening the public with a purely fictional global warming crisis is ignorant trolling.
as is accusing those that don't consider man made global warming as proven as the earth's roundness as uneducated, blind, right wingers.
the ignorant name calling, characterization and denying (denying that the earth has gone through temp changes well before industrial man and suv's) applies just as much to the disciples of global warming is the fault of man/western society.
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Richard Hoover
United States
Indiana
Pennsylvania
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jhebert wrote: It is both funny and sad at the same time.
You may or may not care for a game's theme, but enjoying the game has nothing to do with whether you buy into the theme or not. Nor does a game-boycott have anything to do with global warming, whether you agree or disagree that it is occurring.
I don't believe zombies exist, but I think Last Night on Earth is terrific.
I don't like war, but I think Memoir 44 is a fantastic game.
I don't drink, but I think Bootleggers is a fun game.
Hey, let's all boycott our local BP gas stations, that'll show the parent company who's boss! And when your neighbors are out of work because their employing station shut down due to lack of business, keep in mind how you've struck a blow against BP.
Right.
To the OP, I think it may need to be stated that "I think the theme is this game is...etc." Blanket statements tend to have a polarizing effect on people, which may be one reason the thread was considered to have started spiraling downward.
James, that's a misreasoned argument that goes against basic business and marketing principles. The game is controversial because of the choice of the designer.
The game could have easily been themed as a game about new energy and technology with pts. being awarded for reducing pollution in general (and not specifically CO2) and for efficiency/reduced impact on the earth (less drilling, mining, etc.) from upgrading to new technology.
CO2 and global warming did not have to be mentioned at all. Just as in power grid, new technology power plants are upgraded without any reference to the controversy of man made global warming.
The game is controversial because the designers deliberated chose to focus on a controversial issue. Your blaming the customer for the deliberate choices of the maker to choose to not consider how a certain segment of customers would react.
Anyone with any kind of business education, even business/marketing 101 should grasp the fallacy of that choice.
What is funny and sad is not recognizing basic principles of business and marketing by blaming customers for not adapting to the manufacturer and not vice versa.
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Noah Sheola
Massachusetts
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I was trying to figure out why the theme of this game does not appeal to me at all, and I was reminded of a book I read once about playwriting (called How Not to Write a Play, by Walter Kerr). The author talks about the difference between a theme and a moral. A play, and analogously games, needs a theme. We want it to be about something. But when it takes a position on that theme it just comes across as pompous and preachy. If the playwright or game designer comes across as having some kind of agenda (even if I agree with it), it's less enjoyable. Are there any "games with a message" that anyone really enjoys? I think this is why nobody wants to play religious-themed games.
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Kevin Nesbitt
Canada
Ajax
Ontario
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Personally I think that any opinion that is different from my own AND well reasoned has got to be at least good "food for thought" even if after thinking about it I still don't agree.
However, on the other side of the fence, I do agree that a "game with a message" is usually a game I avoid. However, I'd not be willing to make that assumption with this game; I want to try it before making up my mind, if possible.
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Steven Isaak
United States
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I was thinking CO2 in this case was not for carbon dioxide, I do remember a little of my chemistry from so many years ago
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Stephen Tudor
United States
Chester Springs
PA
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My religious beliefs make the demonic theme of Chaos in the Old World a tough sell. I am sure it's a really good game, but I don't plan on playing it.
In this light, I can understand how a person's deeply held beliefs can make them pass on a game. On the other hand, as offensive as I might find the theme of Chaos in the Old World to be, I certainly don't rail against the game.
As for CO2, I personally don't have any idealogical issues with the theme, but that doesn't stop it from sounding totally boring to me. I just can't imagine playing the role of a foundation, managing "emissions certificates"...
Hopefully, I'll be shown to be wrong. I like plenty of games with dry themes, but this might be the driest I've ever seen.
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Art Damage
Spain
Boston
Massachusetts
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A couple of things going on here.
1. A generally retrograde attitude amongst a majority (or significant minority) of boardgamers, who are so insistent that boardgames be completely bereft of any sort of intellectual weight or moral/ethical complexity. This manifests in a lot of ways, a few of which we see above: the 'call to marketing' (that no game should in any way challenge its consumers, for fear of not selling well) and the 'avoidance of message' (that games should be vacuous fun-exercises devoid of any real interaction with complex themes).
2. Global-warming deniers being ridiculous. This sentence is tautological, and one cannot expect that a segment of the population who thinks they know more about science than 99% of the experts in the field will in any way act reasonably.
I understand the people who choose not to play Chaos in the Old World. I think the choice slightly ridiculous, as I did when my father told me at age 8 I could not watch He-Man because 'only God has The Power', but I think it's an entirely understandable choice. On the other hand, people choosing not to play CO2 because they don't believe in CO2-based global warming is the equivalent of someone refusing to play Stone Age because the earth is 2,000 years old.
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Matthew M Monin
United States
Branford
Connecticut
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
That guy
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Locked
Discussing the game - GOOD
Discussing global warming itself, people who study it, people who deny it, and particularly doing any of those while using pejorative language - BAD
The latter should be restricted to the the designated Religion, Sex, and Politics forum. Posting such content elsewhere can be considered disruptive and a violation of our Community Rules, potentially resulting in warnings and temporary posting restrictions given to people who violate those rules.
-MMM
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