United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
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Let me start this off by saying that I bought this game on the Down Low. Didn't want the GF to know I had it, and I had little hope of it hitting the table anytime soon given the subject matter and the game group I'm currently playing with.
Having said that, I absent-mindedly left it on the dining room table Monday Morning after perusing the rules Sunday night.
GF: "Hey, what's that game on the dining room table? Wings of War?"
Me: "Yup. Meant to put it away. I'll do it right now..."
GF: "Hang on. What is it about? You build planes or something?"
Me: "Nope. You ever watch those old biplane movies with the 'Red Baron'? It's kinda like that. You pick a plane (or scenario) and go at it. I'll go put it away..."
GF: "Wait! That sounds pretty cool! I bet I'd kick your ass in it..."
Me: "He he he. Hardly. You want to give it a go, GF?"
GF: "Damn right I do. Bring it. You're gonna be shot out of the sky like a duck in duck season, like an Iraqi jet, like..."
Me: "Put your money where your mouth is, sweetheart. Got a fiver here that says otherwise."
GF: "Deal."
Short Story: I'm five bucks lighter in the wallet
Flight #1: I get shot out of the sky like a duck in hunting season with an instant kill damage card.
GF: 1 Me: 0
Flight #2: After pumping her full of lead with about 7 or 8 damage cards, I finally knock her out of the sky, 9 damage to myself. I limp back to the airfield, however.
GF: 1 Me: 1
GF: "Really like this game! Tiebreaker?"
Me: "It's your funeral. Let's do it..."
Flight #3: This was a long, drawn out affair. Several times our airplane cards landed on each other, preventing combat. Several Immelmans ended up us out of range or out of line of fire. Finally, we came in contact and let fly the lead. I simply cannot believe her plane can sustain so much damage (cards actaully). How many "0" damage cards are there? How many times did my prayer for an instant kill not get answered? I count at least 5 times...these are my thoughts as I plummet to my death.
GF: 2 Me: 1
GF: "he he he. I'll be takin' that fiver right about now..."
Me: "Drop dead."
GF: "I really like that game. Next time we play let's use the opional rules."
Me: "Don't you have a cat to kick or soomething? Go away."
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Brian M
United States
Grand Ledge
Michigan
Tasteless Brute
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Wings of War is such an elegant game and so many people can learn it. It's easy to play. This game is one of those games that I have to tell people "trust me. you'll like it" because it doesn't look like the sort of game that non-gamers would enjoy.
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Andrea Angiolino
Italy
Rome
European Union
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Thanks a lot, great post!
You are not alone sir, anyway. Have a look at this:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/22024/a-female-opinion-e...
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Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
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It's a fun game and I'm glad you and your GF are enjoying it. The damage system is terribly random though - and the wins don't necessary go to the best flier, just the luckiest card drawer. Most of our fights find players ending up with about the same number of damage cards but half are dead while the other half are doing fine.
So betting on it is kind of like betting on a coin flip.
If you want to remove some of the luck factor, try this:
Cut all planes' HP in half, round up.
Draw damage cards as normal and follow the special symbols.
Damage of zero is a miss -- no damage is dealt.
Any other amount is just counted as 1 hit.
For a more hardcore fight, there are no misses: shots taken at 1 ruler length deal 1 point, at a half length deal 2 points.
Many of the great pilots of WW1 would kill a plane with a single burst.
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United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
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Actaully, I kinda like the random damage system it employs.
Killer Bunnies in the air!
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Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
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Somehow no variant that includes "remove some of the luck factor" actually makes the game "better."
Quote: Many of the great pilots of WW1 would kill a plane with a single burst.
Quite true, but it doesn't make much of a game, does it? We generally remove the "boom" damage cards until the game has gone on for awhile, let that "first shot" be the only shot.
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Sight Reader
United States
Colorado
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kduke wrote: Somehow no variant that includes "remove some of the luck factor" actually makes the game "better."
We play a variant that removes "all" the luck from shooting: hits are based entirely on shooting angle - that is, what parts of the enemy card your line of sight passes through and yes, it's still entirely possible to kill a plane in a single burst!
This system achieves this by doing a primitive calculation of deflection angle.
Challenge: there actually remains a subtle source of randomness in this system - can you determine what it is?
The variant is described in its entirety in the following thread:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/111157/sights-variant-simple...
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Andrea Angiolino
Italy
Rome
European Union
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CrankyPants wrote: Many of the great pilots of WW1 would kill a plane with a single burst.
Very true.
But if you are a good pilot, keeping your target in sight for the whole turn (a few seconds of real time) at short range, you would deal 6 damage cards to the target. The average damage of 6 A cards is 10, if you apply the optional aim rule (one point for every cards that hit if you fire consecutively) it would increase to 13 or so. Without using any explosion card nor any optional ace skill, that's enough to shot down in average a Fokker DrI, and if you are just a bit above average almost any single-engine plane.
To anyone observing the scene from a trench or another plane, and from the point of view of the firing pilot too, that would be with no doubt a single burst. Don't be fooled by the fact that we split that burst in several firing phases (that's a trick to increase simulation accuracy - if you resolve fire several time during the turn you can avoid sophisticated rules for deflection and such IMHO).
I'd say more. Even if you keep on firing from one turn to the other, increasing the number of cards dealt, it can still be considered "a single burst" from the point of view of what real event you are simulating.
Of course, with good aim and good luck you can even shot down a plane with a very short burst, even with a single bullet. Hence the explosion card (that simulates hitting any vital part of the plane in a fatal way, pilot included).
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Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
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angiolillo wrote: CrankyPants wrote: Many of the great pilots of WW1 would kill a plane with a single burst. Very true. But if you are a good pilot, keeping your target in sight for the whole turn (a few seconds of real time) at short range, you would deal 6 damage cards to the target. The average damage of 6 A cards is 10, if you apply the optional aim rule (one point for every cards that hit if you fire consecutively) it would increase to 13 or so. Without using any explosion card nor any optional ace skill, that's enough to shot down in average a Fokker DrI, and if you are just a bit above average almost any single-engine plane. To anyone observing the scene from a trench or another plane, and from the point of view of the firing pilot too, that would be with no doubt a single burst. Don't be fooled by the fact that we split that burst in several firing phases (that's a trick to increase simulation accuracy - if you resolve fire several time during the turn you can avoid sophisticated rules for deflection and such IMHO). I'd say more. Even if you keep on firing from one turn to the other, increasing the number of cards dealt, it can still be considered "a single burst" from the point of view of what real event you are simulating. Of course, with good aim and good luck you can even shot down a plane with a very short burst, even with a single bullet. Hence the explosion card (that simulates hitting any vital part of the plane in a fatal way, pilot included).
Thanks for the considered response! I think that part of what makes the game so accessible is the card mechanic for damage. But after 60 recorded flights (and probably another 30 unrecorded) I've noticed 2 correlated patterns:
1) everyone seems to end the mission with approximately the same number of damage cards - the winners are those who drew the most zeros and the losers are those who drew the most 3,4,5s
2) players aren't afraid to trade shots. They aren't afraid because they're willing to risk the coin toss of the damage deck.
This isn't bad and lots of people enjoy it; I enjoy it. As the OP said -- it's Killer Bunnies in the air -- and you can't deny the popularity of Killer Bunnies!
But I'd argue that a fixed damage system removes the coin toss, discourages trading shots and (more importantly) encourages better play. In fact, better, more experienced players will do what they should do: win more consistently.
I'll add that I'm aware that removing the luck factor makes the game less friendly to new players -- and I'm opposed to that. I love that a five minute explanation can put anyone in the air and would hate to see people discouraged by being shot down quickly and never really understanding why they lost.
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Andrea Angiolino
Italy
Rome
European Union
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Good points!
Actually there are several tournaments of WoW around, and they are usually open to beginners too. A simple way to remove luck (it's a tournament after all) is similar to what has been suggested above: with A firing planes, give 2 points of damage for each long range hit and 3 for short range ones. That's it and it's enough (even if you can add something if you want, as the aim bonus).
Scoring hits is then a product of being good at maneuvring, and hits can become directly victory point (usually with bonuses for being the one to shot down a plane, being on the winning sdide, and a malusz for being shot down that's far higher for leaving the table while alive).
Trading shots is then useless to win - it gives the same amount of victory points to both and just makes the end nearer. It can just help a stronger plane against a more fragile one since it makes the end nearer - a SPAD XIII against a Dr.I could find useful trading shots. This will force the Dr.I to evading and maneuvring tactics while the SPAD just try to hit & run... And you know what... That's even realistic!
The same effect could be felt in the normal game with the card, since in the average the exchange of hits gives the same amount of damage and then makes the end of a Dr.I nearer than the end of a SPAD... But I can see that some Dr.I pilots can decide to rely more on luck than on agility if cards are involved.
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