Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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I've been playing a rather lot of battlelore lately (thank you, Mark and Dan
 ) and a couple situations arose that I think we have a handle on, but thought it would be good to hear some other opinions:
1) What effect does a play of Mass Shield (or Stone Skin/Agility, for that matter) on the attack of a Bagpipe unit? Is the defending unit able to ignore a bonus strike result since it ultimately is considered a flag? Is it able to ignore a color result as it is ultimately considered a retreat (this is the one that applies to Stone Skin/Agility as well)?
A more concrete example: a blue goblin short sword unit that is supported is targeted by a red bagpipe during a turn in which Mass Shield was played. Blue, Bonus Strike, Bonus Strike, Bonus Strike was the result. How many hexes must the blue goblins retreat?
2) If player A makes their command card play and player B counters with a play of False Orders, when the new command card is chosen, may player A make a "play alongside your command card" lore play?
EDIT: corrected "retreat" with "flag" in 1).
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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toddrew wrote: I've been playing a rather lot of battlelore lately (thank you, Mark and Dan ) and a couple situations arose that I think we have a handle on, but thought it would be good to hear some other opinions: 1) What effect does a play of Mass Shield (or Stone Skin/Agility, for that matter) on the attack of a Bagpipe unit? Is the defending unit able to ignore a bonus strike result since it ultimately is considered a retreat? Is it able to ignore a color result as it is ultimately considered a retreat (this is the one that applies to Stone Skin/Agility as well)? A more concrete example: a blue goblin short sword unit that is supported is targeted by a red bagpipe during a turn in which Mass Shield was played. Blue, Bonus Strike, Bonus Strike, Bonus Strike was the result. How many hexes must the blue goblins retreat?
Mass Shield lets you ignore one Flag and One banner color. It doesn't matter what those results ultimately resolve as. Ignore the first falg and ignore the first banner and resolve what is left.
So in your example the Blue would be ignored leaving 3 Bonus Strikes. The 3 Bonus are treated as special which means they are now flags. But since a flag was rolled, Mass shield doesn't protect the unit. Instead they have 3 flags to reslove. 1 is ignored because they are bold so they are left with 4 hexes to retreat.
Had the result been Blue-Flag-Shield-Shield. I would say they ignore teh Blue and Flag because of Mass Shield and ignore one Shield as the result of being Bold. they would then retrat 2 hexes for the last Shield.
Quote: 2) If player A makes their command card play and player B counters with a play of False Orders, when the new command card is chosen, may player A make a "play alongside your command card" lore play?
I don't see why not. I thought there was a clarification back on DOW's website that if they false ordered your command card once you played the Lore card, you could take it backup and then play a new one alongside the new command card.
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Dan Cavaliere
United States
Littleton
Colorado
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These are great questions Todd and as I don't feel qualified to answer here I will second the motion (one I read in another post of yours) to FFG for an FAQ or 'updated' rules.
I know we tend to solve our questions such as these on our own, but I always like to hear an 'official' answer now and then. 
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Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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You play the game, you're as qualified as anyone
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Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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Rather than start another thread, figured I would tack this on here (though I think old threads with new posts just tend to get ignored/passed over?):
If a bagpipe unit in melee (point blank) combat with another unit encounters a backstab play during its combat roll, what happens?
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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Per backstab, only the Bonus (SoS) rolls boomerrang. So the Bagpipe unit must retreat for each Bonus rolled (after teh discount for bold, support, etc.).
The original target takes all flags and banner color hits as retreats as normal.
This seems pretty straightforward. Am I missing something that seems tricky about this combo?
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Dan Cavaliere
United States
Littleton
Colorado
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Both of you (Brian & Todd) may understand each other here better than I do with the question and answer
 You'll have to explain better for my smaller sized brain
Todd are you asking if the bagpiper gets Back Stabbed with his roll?
Brian, 'Rolls boomerang' meaning?
Not being demeaning here, just want to know for clarification myself.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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Backstab says:
Quote: All Bonus Strikes rolled score a hit against the target who attacked you, not on your unit! All other dice effects still apply against your unit.
So in effect, any "Sword on Shield" rseults "boomerang" back at you. Instead of potential hits against the target, the attacker gets hit instead.
The issue that I assume Todd is bringing up is that Bagpipers don't actually deal damage. Banner color and Sword on Shield (Bonus) are treatesd like Flags.
So the question, I presume, is how are Bagpiper Bonus rolls handled? Normally, they would be a retreat against the target. But when Backstab is played, what happens? I say they turn back on the Bagpiper as retreat flags. In other words, the same effect applies, just against another unit.
The argument against that is that backstab specifically says Bonuses that "hit" so Todd may be thinking that Bonuses are now Hits against the bagpipers, or possibly ignored since they aren't really hits" or he may think what I think above.
Does that help in your understanding of what the issue is here? If not, let me know - or let Todd elaborate in case I have it wrong as well.
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Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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Yeah, the question is, when backstab is played against the pipes, is it a hit or a flag? I would lean towards removing figures rather than causing retreats, but either way would be fine by me.
If they are all (color, bonus, flag) considered flags right away, and therefore not "backstabable" at all, I'd be fine with that too. Sorta related to the Mass Shield question.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
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toddrew wrote: Yeah, the question is, when backstab is played against the pipes, is it a hit or a flag? I would lean towards removing figures rather than causing retreats, but either way would be fine by me.
If they are all (color, bonus, flag) considered flags right away, and therefore not "backstabable" at all, I'd be fine with that too. Sorta related to the Mass Shield question.
It just seems odd to me that a retreat from music would cause a hit against the unit playing that music. But stranger things have happened.
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Dan Cavaliere
United States
Littleton
Colorado
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Ok got it - thanks guys. Another one for the 'updated rules' I'd like to see from FFG
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Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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And it seems odd to me that a unit equipped with sharp pointy objects would cause no damage - but that happens all the time in this game, so I would be completely comfortable with any ruling, just would be nice to have something aside a die roll to use as a touchstone
Also, everything about the bagpipes is odd, which is why they are one of my favorite units All of the musical units, in fact, provide me much enjoyment in this game.
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Todd Rewoldt
United States
Loveland
Colorado
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toddrew wrote: And it seems odd to me that a unit equipped with sharp pointy objects would cause no damage - but that happens all the time in this game...
Along these lines, the opposite situation occurred, where the pipes we under attack and then Backstab was played. The question brought up was "so is that a retreat or a hit?".
(A friend and I have been playing the "Along the Watchtower" scenario pretty much every weekday morning for the past 4 weeks, so stuff involving the bagpipers [a central player to that scenario] comes up now and again )
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Posted Thu Sep 9, 2010 2:22 am
