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Gettysburg (1977 Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification on Intermediate game rules rss

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ah shang
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I am trying to play the Intermediate Gettysburg (1977) game recently and am quite confused about some of the rules. I would appreciate it very much if someone can help me clarify them:

1) Night #4 states ‘At the start of the night turn, both players, before commencing other activities, remove all disorganized and shattered markers from all units...’ but #3 states ‘... It may retreat out of enemy zone of control ...’ Does such a retreat cause the unit become Disorganized 2 during the night turn?

2) Combat Qualifications #5 states ‘A maximum of one infantry or cavalry unit or group of units of the attacking player’s choice can attack from one hex. Artillery units may always attack.’
a) In the same ‘combat round’, if a hex contains 2 infantry units, can one infantry unit attack one hex and the other unit attack a DIFFERENT hex?
b) In the same ‘combat round’, if a hex contains 1 infantry and 1 artillery unit, can the infantry unit attack one hex and the artillery unit attack a different hex?

3) Combat Qualifications #12 states ‘... Only one unit may loan points ...’ Can the lending unit still defend by itself in the hex in a two direction attack with its remaining ‘unloaned’ points? Or the defending unit is not allowed to loan points if it is itself defending against a two direction attack?

4) Multiple Combat #3 states ‘... the attacker has the choice of dividing combat into more than one battle ...’ Can an attacking unit attack more than once per ‘combat round’? Can a defending unit be attacked more than once per ‘combat round’?

5) Multiple rounds #1 states ‘... there is no limit to the number of combat rounds that might occur in a combat phase.’ Consider this hypothetical scenario: Defender has a straight line of combat units in every hex from F30 to F40. Attacker has a unit in hex F29. Attacker keeps attacking in every subsequent combat round and rolling a ‘DR + D1’ every time and advancing one hex along the F30-F40 line. Both attacker and defender do not conduct any voluntary retreats. Does this mean that the attacker can conceivably ‘advance’ all the way from F29 to F40, all during one single combat phase? This does not make sense to me, but the rules seem to permit such a scenario.

6) Shatter and Disorganization #5 states ‘The effects of shattering do not begin until the end of the combat phase in which the step is lost.’ Does this mean that an attacking unit which loses one step during the first ‘combat round’ can still attack in the SECOND ‘combat round’ of the same combat phase?

7) Retreat Restrictions #5 states ‘A unit or units which retreat onto friendly units may ignore stacking restrictions. If the stack is attacked in the next combat round or phase, their strength is not counted in defense.’
a) In the ‘overstacked’ hex, can the defender choos to use the retreated unit(s) to defend instead of the units that were originally in the hex?
b) Can a unit conducting VOLUNTARY retreat also ignore stacking restrictions?

8) Retreat #3 from the ERRATA states ‘If a unit forced to retreat is completely surrounded by enemy units, it is eliminated instead.’ What happens if the defender’s hex containing a combat unit and a HQ unit is completely surrounded, and the defender suffers a ‘DR’ result? Is the HQ unit also automatically eliminated (just like the combat unit) or does it roll the die for its fate according to the Headquarters Table?

9) Special effects to combat #2 states ‘A unit which is forced to retreat into a town hex must lose one step.’
a) Does this rule apply to combat units conducting voluntary retreats since such retreats are not really ‘forced’?
b) A defending combat unit in a non-town hex suffers a ‘DR + D1’ result. It can only retreat into a town hex. Hence it must lose another step and is eliminated?
c) A defending combat unit in a town hex suffers a ‘DR + D1’ result. It does not have to retreat, but it chooses to retreat into an adjacent town hex. Does it lose another step and is eliminated since it is not really ‘forced’ to retreat?

10) Advance #4 states ‘A unit can advance one hex into the vacated hex or to an unoccupied hex adjacent to the vacated hex ...’
a) If the ‘unoccupied adjacent hex’ is in enemy ZOC, can a unit still advance there?
b) If there more 2 or more such ‘unoccupied adjacent hexes’, can units advance into all or some of them?

11) Can the defender’s unit(s) ever advance, e.g. when attacker suffers an ‘AR’ result in combat or when attacker conducts a voluntary retreat?

Thank you!
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G. Harding Warren
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Arnold
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These are very, very good questions. I can't say I have the answers. Instead, I'd simply like to discuss these points.

With regard to #1 (retreating at night from ZOC). I generally think of the disorganization markers as signifying a disorderly rout, when a unit needs to simply "run away." As retreating for the night to set out the bed rolls is not the same as routing, I would argue that the disorganziation marker should not be placed.

#2. The text seems to prohibit two infantry attacks out of one hex. I could think of reasons why it should not mean that, but because the text is pretty clear (and made more so by the side comment regarding artillery), I would say no two infantry attacks.

#5. Like you said, the situation sounds strange, but I couldn't find anything in the rules to suggest that a unit could not continue to attack and advance in numerous rounds.

7(a). It seems that it is explicitly stated in the quoted text that the retreated unit in the defender's stack cannot use its defense value when the stack is next attacked. Maybe I misunderstand your question.
7(b). I think that the use of the phrase elsewhere in the rules "units FORCED to retreat" is helpful here. In the quoted text, stacking restrictions are lifted for all units which retreat, not just those "forced" to do so.

8. The term "unit" is defined early on as including HQ. I would probably say that the HQ is automatically eliminated. I'd be interested as to your thoughts on this.

9(a). I really think that the phrase "forced to retreat" is meant to differentiate between those who retreat due to CRT results and those who do so voluntarily. So I would say the rule doesn't apply. I also go back to my retreat-as-rout analogy from question 1. Given that, I would say that the unit forced to retreat after losing one step is eliminated when forced to lose another [question 9(b)] and the voluntarily retreating uint in question 9(c) would not lose a step.

10. I have to go back and check the rules on advance, but I'm pretty sure that ZOC is temporarily lifted in advance, like it is in most other wargames I've played.

11. Again, I want to double-check the rules, but unless any wargame's rules clearly allow advances by defenders after an attacker retreat, I would not allow such advance. It is just so rare in any wargame to allow such advances, that I would doubt that there was an intent do include them absent some clear indication to the contrary.

To repeat: I am no authority on Gettysburg at all. I just like the game, have played a bunch of other Avalon Hill games and thought that this was a great topic for discussion.

Thanks for the thread!
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ah shang
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#8 It is hard to imagine the general on horseback being able to escape when totally surrounded by enemy units. Maybe in real life, if the battle took place in the woods close to nighttime, there is a slim possibility of escape during the confusion of the battle. But in general I agree with your point.

#11 In the Introductory game, the rules state quite clearly that only attackers can advance. In the Advanced game, however, the rules do allow defenders to advance on one occasion, which is during Defender's Assault. Hence this caused me some confusion since the rules in the Intermediate game are quite ambiguous as to whether the defender can advance or not. I'd also like to limit advance to attackers only, as in other wargames I've played.

Thank you so much for your discussion. It helps a lot!

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G. Harding Warren
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Arnold
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UHB1 wrote:

With regard to #1 (retreating at night from ZOC). I generally think of the disorganization markers as signifying a disorderly rout, when a unit needs to simply "run away." As retreating for the night to set out the bed rolls is not the same as routing, I would argue that the disorganziation marker should not be placed.



I was dead wrong here--ANY unit retreating out of enemy ZOC (voluntary or otherwise) becomes disorganized. As the disorganization markers are lifted at the outset of the night turn, and the retreat occurs thereafter, the retreating units do indeed become disorganized.

My apologies.
 
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Luis Lopez Tejeda
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Hello,

I wrote a post, but since here we are talking intermediate rules, i would like to ask again.

What is the combat procedure for artillery?? I mean, the range... nothing is mentioned in the manual.

At least i cant find anything!! Is it similar to Napoleon at waterloo???
 
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