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Subject: OBG 54: Party On Wayne rss

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Donald Dennis
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Erik, Donald, and Scott, discuss cons they've been to recently and then party games.

Scott reviews The Resistance
Erik reviews Defenders of the Realm


http://onboardgames.libsyn.com/obg-054-party-on-wayne

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Donald Dennis
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How would you define a party game?

What hot party games have you been seen lately?

Are there any classic party games that stand the test of time?
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Magnus Esko
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That was an excellent episode

I didn't read the rules so I don't know if we played it wrong but when we played Defenders of the Realm on 4 it was a really easy game. We played the game competitively so everybody was doing quests to get points (we completed every quest in the game) and we didn't feel like the game was very hard or that we really cared. We ended up loosing in the end because we got a card that filled the board with orcs and we were 1 or 2 short. The quest rewards and the heroes were unbalanced and the whole game was really boring and took too long to play for what it was.

I recently played the Swedish version of Cranium 2.0 and it was a lot of fun for the most part. The word challenges are really hard and it's impossible to imitate people you have never heard about. I'm also not really in favor of the roll and move mechanism as well as the shortcuts. But it's nice that the game requires you to play in teams. As a party game it is definitely a green light if you ask me.

Wits and Wagers wasn't a big hit here though. There's no localized Swedish version. I have no problems translating the questions to Swedish but many questions are about things in USA and measurements are in pounds and miles etc that we don't use.

I would really recommend Dixit. Love the artwork and the creative aspect of that game. However, people who are less creative will have a problem figuring out things to say about the pictures and may have a problem with guessing the right image.

To me a party game have so easy rules that anyone can understand them immediately, they are very light and does not require tactical or strategical thinking. They are more like activities with points rather then games.
 
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ɹǝpun uʍop ʞǝǝƃ
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There's a party on Wayne? Will we all fit, Donald?

Sorry... couldn't resist! Downloading now.
 
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Donald Dennis
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mr_lunch wrote:
There's a party on Wayne? Will we all fit, Donald?

Sorry... couldn't resist! Downloading now.

If it were "Party On Donald" you'd all fit. But I doubt Wayne could fit even just me.

He's kinda small.
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Jason Lott
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I think for us a party game needs to play at least 5, be generally light-hearted, and easy to teach. The best bets at our house are Apples to Apples, Eat Poop You Cat, and Wits & Wagers.
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Ryan Sturm
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Im extremely disappointed I heard two references in the last two episodes to silent death, yet no ....

"SHHHHHHH,,, death"
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Michael Denman
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Awakening wrote:
I didn't read the rules so I don't know if we played it wrong but when we played Defenders of the Realm on 4 it was a really easy game.


Yeah, I thought it was pretty easy too and I know we had the rules right. I can see where a chain of really bad luck could make things tough though. I'd play again if someone else suggested it, but it's not anything I'm in rush to play again.

Eric's BSG story was amusing... and illustrates exactly why so many people don't want to play with the New Caprica board.

I think a party game has to allow a crowd to play and it has to not intimidate non-hobby gamers. My current hot party game is Train of Thought.

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Ben Lott
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Walsfeo wrote:
How would you define a party game?

I think you guys did a pretty good job. In general these are criteria I look for (however there is always a gray area):

1. Playable by at least 6 players (preferably more)
2. Easy to teach/learn
3. Focus is more on the experience rather than winning

Walsfeo wrote:
What hot party games have you been seen lately?

I'm still obsessed with Time's Up! Title Recall! It has provided some of the most enjoyable gaming moments of my entire life.

As for new stuff, well I really like the simplified scoring system in Wits & Wagers Family. In fact, I'm thinking of grabbing the questions out of the original and using the new scoring system with those questions.

Walsfeo wrote:
Are there any classic party games that stand the test of time?

I still really love True Colors, but I'm not sure it's old enough to fit the definition of "classic." Perhaps Pit is the oldest party game that I still play from time to time.




As for the episode, I just wanted to add a counterpoint. It seemed strange to me that Erik and Donald were so quick to write off LCR and Bunco. While I understand the gamer hate towards games that require no decisions, I totally expected Scott to leap to the games' defense. In fact, here's a post from Scott 2 years ago on BGG:

snicholson wrote:
Bingo is fun when there is player interaction. The game actually plays an insignificant role in that social interaction that can occur around a game of bingo.

So, if you look at the overall "gaming experience," which includes the social interactions before, during, and after the game, Bingo can create a very enjoyable gaming experience. It's just like Bunco or LCR; it's more about the social interactions than it is about the game.

The point to these games is that there's little "game" to get in the way of the social interactions. It's a shared activity.

I think what separates this social interaction for you guys, and makes you dislike the experience more, is the fact that the conversations that take place during the game are about things outside of the game. Whereas in a game like Time's Up, the conversations are about the game. Since there is no thought required for LCR, Bunco, Bingo, etc. you need to talk about other things. Now to answer why you are happy talking about a game and not about other things is beyond me. Personally I enjoy an occasional game of LCR or Bingo.
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Randy Cox
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Needless to say, I haven't heard the podthingie, but I'd love to read a transcript...
Walsfeo wrote:
How would you define a party game?
This is so hard. It's like porn--I know it when I see it.

But one thing it is NOT, is a game with a required minimal number of players (well, I guess you need at least 2). Password is a great 4-player party game and I really enjoy Facts in Five with 2 or 3.

To me, a party game is a game where gaming the system is not only ridiculed (as it should be in every game) but is made difficult by the rules of the game. I mean, sure you could bastardize What Were You Thinking by always saying "Soap" and "Uganda" as two of your answers and matching the other three buddies who are doing this juvenile tactic. But the game would fall apart (not be so fun) and you'd lose. So the game kicks you in the ass for being a dork. That goes a long way toward making a game a party game.

I don't agree that it's about playing over winning. I keep score in all games I play, party or no. And in no games I play do I care afterwards what the score was, other than for analysis along the lines of "what is a winning score with X number of players." So, Puerto Rico and Dixit are equivalent in the "does the score matter" race.

Basically, it is a game which is simple to teach (I mean really, really simple--Acquire is 100 times more difficult than a party game should be to teach) and plays pretty quickly and makes people happy as they play, to the point where they can forget that they're using their brains. That is key to me.
Quote:
What hot party games have you been seen lately?
Telestrations has been big this year. I have purchased several I hope will soon become "hot" (Fictionaire and Bezzerwizzer).
Quote:
Are there any classic party games that stand the test of time?
Plenty. Facts in Five, Charades, What Were You Thinking, Balderdash and derivatives, Password, Trivial Pursuit, Times to Remember, Stage II. Those have definitely stood the test of time and are still strong games. Celebrities has stood that test. Interestingly, I consider Times Up to be too "new" to be classic yet. Same is true for Apples to Apples, that loathsome game.
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Donald Dennis
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Blott wrote:
As for the episode, I just wanted to add a counterpoint. It seemed strange to me that Erik and Donald were so quick to write off LCR and Bunco. While I understand the gamer hate towards games that require no decisions, I totally expected Scott to leap to the games' defense. In fact, here's a post from Scott 2 years ago on BGG:

snicholson wrote:
Bingo is fun when there is player interaction. The game actually plays an insignificant role in that social interaction that can occur around a game of bingo.

So, if you look at the overall "gaming experience," which includes the social interactions before, during, and after the game, Bingo can create a very enjoyable gaming experience. It's just like Bunco or LCR; it's more about the social interactions than it is about the game.

The point to these games is that there's little "game" to get in the way of the social interactions. It's a shared activity.

I think what separates this social interaction for you guys, and makes you dislike the experience more, is the fact that the conversations that take place during the game are about things outside of the game. Whereas in a game like Time's Up, the conversations are about the game. Since there is no thought required for LCR, Bunco, Bingo, etc. you need to talk about other things. Now to answer why you are happy talking about a game and not about other things is beyond me. Personally I enjoy an occasional game of LCR or Bingo.


I don't like games that could play themselves without any decision making engine. With both LCR and Bunco there is zero judgement needed which makes them 100% luck with absolutely no skill. I might as well just flip a coin. I suppose Bingo has some "perception" skill test, but even that I don't regard as an interesting or useful game experience.

Great party games generate interaction instead of just allowing it because of the long pauses in game play when you are not involved and there is nothing better to do than chat. So basically LCR and Bunco are activities for people who don't have the skill to make decisions or the creativity enough to join a sewing circle. Or drunks. It is entirely possible for folks to get drunk enough that's all they could play.

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Donald Dennis
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Randy Cox wrote:
But one thing it is NOT, is a game with a required minimal number of players (well, I guess you need at least 2). Password is a great 4-player party game and I really enjoy Facts in Five with 2 or 3.
While it'd be neat if a party game didn't have a minimum number, I don't really have a problem if they require as many as five people to hit their stride.
 
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Michael Denman
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Walsfeo wrote:
Blott wrote:
I think what separates this social interaction for you guys, and makes you dislike the experience more, is the fact that the conversations that take place during the game are about things outside of the game. Whereas in a game like Time's Up, the conversations are about the game. Since there is no thought required for LCR, Bunco, Bingo, etc. you need to talk about other things. Now to answer why you are happy talking about a game and not about other things is beyond me. Personally I enjoy an occasional game of LCR or Bingo.


I don't like games that could play themselves without any decision making engine. With both LCR and Bunco there is zero judgement needed which makes them 100% luck with absolutely no skill. I might as well just flip a coin. I suppose Bingo has some "perception" skill test, but even that I don't regard as an interesting or useful game experience.

Great party games generate interaction instead of just allowing it because of the long pauses in game play when you are not involved and there is nothing better to do than chat. So basically LCR and Bunco are activities for people who don't have the skill to make decisions or the creativity enough to join a sewing circle. Or drunks. It is entirely possible for folks to get drunk enough that's all they could play.


Yeah, I don't see the point of Bunco, etc. I hear that these activities somehow help social interaction, but I don't see why. Is it that they simply force a few people to sit together in one place and thus those people will have a conversation? That just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, the conversations during my games do tend towards talking about the game, but we do talk about more common topics as well. Isn't that true of most other... group activities? If I get together with the guys to watch a hockey game, we'll mostly talk about hockey, but that doesn't mean we don't talk about anything else. If a new guy was watching the game with us, the hockey game provides an obvious common denominator so that he can more easily become part of our conversations and we can go on to talk about other things. How does something like Bunco help here? I don't see how it provides a common denominator to build upon.
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Randy Cox
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I've not played Bunco, though I know the rules. And I can see how it facilitates communication and just plain silly fun.

I have a friend who we game with from time to time. Likes Acquire and such. But she plays Bunco once a month with the neighborhood women's club. Why? For the strategic depth? Um, no.

She does it because it's fun and gets people to talk. The forced partner changing means you get paired up with others who you may not have spoken to in the past several months (that doesn't happen when a small cadre of 'the guys' invite one more person to the hockey game). And the other thing is that there's money on the line. Gambling, even if it's just slot machines or blackjack, often give people a rush. Doesn't matter if they're at the fates of chance or not. It's just fun for many people.

Mostly, I figure that Bunco gets people to do two things they'd never, ever do otherwise. 1) Play a game and 2) be silly for the pure hell of it.

That means it's a successful party game, I suppose.
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Michael Denman
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OK. The forced partnerships are what I was talking about. I see that angle. I hadn't thought about the gambling, but I can see how that could appeal to some folks as well.

I'm still going to dispute that you're playing a game, but that's really not the issue here anyway, eh?
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Donald Dennis
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The artifice of partnerships is better implemented in games like bridge or even partners Skip-Bo.



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Sean Torrens
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This was the best episode yet because Scott said 'Hi' to me.
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