Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Descent: The Tomb of Ice» Forums » Rules

Subject: Feat cards: "targettability" rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Alessandro Cingolani
Italy
Arezzo
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For all the cards that influence the Heroes, am I correct to say that they must be played on that particular player's Hero?

For example: the Follow Through card, if owned by player A, can only be played by Player A during his Hero turn, thus forcing the play on his own Hero.

Moreover, during the Overlord turn, if player A did put guard on his Hero, and he makes a successful melee attack using guard, he can obviously play the Follow Through card on his Hero's attack, but for the same rationale, if player B makes an interrupt melee attack with guard, player A cannot play Follow Through on player B's Hero.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think that's a correct assumption. Here's the rule in question:

Quote:
Playing Feat Cards

Each Feat card lists one or more triggering conditions that determine the timing and situation in which it can be played. Hero players may play Feat cards at any time as long as the triggering conditions have been met. After playing a Feat card, the hero player simply follows the instructions printed on the card, resolves its effects, and discards the card onto a discard pile for that feat type.

Important: Each hero player may only play one Feat card per turn. So, for example, each hero player may play one Feat card on his turn, and one Feat card on the overlord’s turn.

pg 5 of ToI rulebook


From the Descent rulebook, it looks like a "Turn" is an individual player's time to act, not the team's time to act. So, in theory, in a 4 Hero game, a Hero could play 5 feat cards every round (one on each Hero's turn and one on the OL's turn), as long as the triggering conditions of the cards are met.

I don't recall the specific text of the Feat cards, so I don't remember if there are many that specify a Hero. I think most of them are pretty generic/open ended, so playing on another hero's turn with your feat card is usually not a problem.

Now, having read the text of the Raw, I can see how someone would argue that the "For Example" text specifies only 1 card on the Heroes turn and one on the Overlord's turn, i.e. 2 cards max per Round. And honestly, that's how my group plays. But rereading the rules, I think technically you could play 5 cards per round (in a 4 hero game).

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Cingolani
Italy
Arezzo
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a good point. We argued this evening even about this, and after reading the example in the box in the RaW, we thought "ok, so 1 card during all the Heroes' turns and 1 card during the Overlord turn".

But, reading the vanilla RaW, it's clear that a single "game round" is composed by N+1 turns, where N is the number of Heroes playing.

Thus, strictly and thinking about it, a player can play 5 feat cards in a single game round with 4 heroes playing, and this would be ok (since drawing them isn't really easy).

But now this ruling creates some problems with the effects of single cards as they're written.

Let's take an example: Magi Madness and Flaming Fury (both magic feat cards).

Magi Madness: Play before rolling the dice when making a magic attack. You gain the Sorcery 3 ability for that attack.

Flaming Fury: Play after making a successful magic attack on a monster (a magic attack that doesn't miss). Place 3 burn tokens on that monster.

As we read them, Flaming Fury seems to allow its play on another Hero's magic attack, there' not a single reference to the player playing the feat card; but, with MM, there's a problem, it states You, thus implying the player playing the card, and so to me it seems that this card cannot be played on another Hero's magic attack.

And this point clashes even with the rule about "no exchanging of feat cards": if it's NOT intended to limit the use of such cards as MM to the player's Hero who's playing the card, then this "no exchange" rule has no effective impact on the gameplay (except, maybe, for holding limit purposes).

So, I think that everything converge toward the "1 card during YOUR Hero's turn and 1 card during the Overlord's turn", only as a net effect provided by the fact that all the cards influence the action of the Overlord OR the action of the player's Hero who's playing the feat card.

But I'd like to listen to other logics about this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree, when you take the text of MM in its entirety, it seems that its intent was for the hero playing the card. I disagree that the Feat cards were meant to only affect the hero playing the card. For example, one feat used often to my dismay is the one that cancels Trap cards (cannot remember the name). Often the Hero playing the card is not the Hero whom I'm trapping nor the current, active Hero. But as Overlord, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed to be played. The triggering event happened (I played a Trap Card), and the Hero hasn't played a card on this turn yet.

The only limiting factor I would consider is the one-card-per-hero-turn to mean all heroes, not each hero (i.e. 2 cards per round). But then again, I guess if the heroes wanted to dump all their feat cards in one go, it leaves them pretty open for later attacks...

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Cingolani
Italy
Arezzo
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait Shnar, I think you're referring to the Subterfuge Disarm card:

Disarm
Play when the overlord plays a trap card on you or any friendly figure within 3 spaces of you.
You must roll a power die. If the result is a blank, there is no effect.
If the result is not a blank, the trap card is canceled and discarded, but the overlord must still pay the threat cost of the discarded trap.


This card clearly states "you or any friendly figure", so if any card was intended to be used on any other hero, this would be redundant text.

There's even another card similar to Disarm, the Protect Thyself Magic card:

Protect Thyself
Play this card after the overlord has declared a monster's attack against any hero, but before he has rolled the dice for the attack.
Your hero, and all the heroes within 3 spaces of you, gains +2 armor until the start of your next turn.
Leave this card faceup in front of you until the start of your next turn.


Again, the card states "any hero", then the area of effect of the card (you and all the heroes withing 3 spaces of you).

You can check out even the Transparent magic card.

I think that these cards reinforce the idea that all Feat cards must be used only on yourself if YOU play them, except the ones that clearly talk about other Heroes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark McG
Australia
Penshurst
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
My impression is that feats are like temporary Skills, and therefore effect the hero that plays them.

Does this help?
http://www.descentinthedark.com/_f_/feats.php
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corbon Loughnan
Indonesia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Each feat has a triggering condition, and feats are only playable by the hero who owns them.

In the example given earlier, the Flaming Fury Feat should not be playable after another hero makes an attack. The trigger is "Play after making a successful ... attack. If the hero didn't make a successful attack, he can't play it. It does not say play "...after a successful attack is made...", which would mean by anyone. It is a subtle but important difference.

Edit: Ahh, I see Antistone gave a better written answer to the same effect on FFG forum.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.