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Subject: King's Court x2 -> Goons -> Masquerade -> Broken rss

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Jansen S
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Once this engine is set up, the game is basically over:

Trash your deck with Masquerade or other trashing cards until you have only non-terminals, 1 Goons, 2 King's Court, and 1 Masquerade. Then, play all non-terminals, King's Court -> King's Court -> Goons -> Masquerade leaves the opponent with 0 cards in hand because of the way Masquerade works (you receive but don't pass). You must trash every card you get from the other player except the last one (which you should only keep if it is a non-terminal). Since there are only 4 non-terminal cards in your deck, you can combo this every turn until you have trashed your opponent's entire deck.

Certainly, this only works in a two player game although it would be fun to try in a multiplayer game... There are a few substitutions that can be made for the Goons (Ghost Ship or Militia) and the second King's Court (if there are +2 action non-terminals) but they don't change the strategy.

Timing is the only issue but it is difficult for the other player to end the game quickly when you have Masquerade and Goons.

Once set up, this can only be defended by a Moat against the Goons.

EDIT: What's funny is that on Isotropic, you can't resign if you have 0 cards in hand... Basically, this usually forces a rage quit.
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Chad Weaver
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HydraBurrito wrote:
King's Court -> King's Court -> Goons -> Masquerade leaves the opponent with 0 cards in hand because of the way Masquerade works (you receive but don't pass).


Are you sure about that?
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Jansen S
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If you have no cards left to draw in the deck and your hand is empty, then you receive a card but don't pass one.
 
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James Newton
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chadw09 wrote:
HydraBurrito wrote:
King's Court -> King's Court -> Goons -> Masquerade leaves the opponent with 0 cards in hand because of the way Masquerade works (you receive but don't pass).


Are you sure about that?

He seems to be positing that you have all your cards in play by then, so you have no cards for Masquerade's +2 Cards to draw, and none in hand to pass on.

You also potentially have no victory points, so you lose.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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churchmouse wrote:
You also potentially have no victory points, so you lose.


He doesn't need a single victory point until the very end. Once his engine is going, he trashes all of his opponent's cards. Once his opponent has absolutely no card in his deck, he can make some purchases with Goons. The only thing his opponent might do to force a game end is clear the Copper and Curse pile while hopefully a third pile was already completed before the engine went off.
 
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Dave Goldthorpe
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Most games finish quickly after one player has two king's courts. This would actually be a slow way to bring the game to deadlock.
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Ben Bateson
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By the time I have trashed all the cards in my deck with Masquerade, I expect my opponents will have bought at least three Provinces each, and have a fair few VP tokens on top.

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Pere
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ousgg wrote:
By the time I have trashed all the cards in my deck with Masquerade, I expect my opponents will have bought at least three Provinces each, and have a fair few VP tokens on top.


Thumbs up for the amazing gif!
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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ousgg wrote:
By the time I have trashed all the cards in my deck with Masquerade, I expect my opponents will have bought at least three Provinces each, and have a fair few VP tokens on top.


Which then will be trashed anyway with this combo.



However, I admit, I do not believe the game could take long enough so that something like this may happen.
 
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Nate S
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"This extremely difficult to build combo involving a bunch of expensive cards and the elimination of every other card from my deck is broken because if your opponents are truly inept you might be able to build it before they end the game."

"Oh, and if they are really and truly F'd in the head they might be too dumb to harry me with Masquerade or Goons while I'm trying to build this delicate piece of machinery."

I need a thumbs down button for every thread involving the word "broken".
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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ghorsche wrote:
I need a thumbs down button for every thread involving the word "broken".


Nah, we need an auto-thumbs-down for every post and thread containing this word!
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Nate S
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Take the word "Broken" out of the title and my reaction might have been "Hey, cool combo, even if it's all but impossible to build against a competent opponent."
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Dave G
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ghorsche wrote:
Take the word "Broken" out of the title and my reaction might have been "Hey, cool combo, even if it's all but impossible to build against a competent opponent."


Dude, it'd like totally work though if the other guy doesn't stop you. My friend tried it in a game and won by like a million points.Then he ate pop rocks and drank a coke and he died because they blew up his stomach. It really happened!
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This is like calling chess "broken" because it's possible to checkmate someone in four moves if they've never played before.
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Tables
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As it turns out, against an unsuspecting opponent this strategy can actually work. He's about a low level intermediate player. I got it working at about turn 12, although I didn't quite get it running smoothly until about turn 14. He quit (unsurprisingly) about turn 19, after having had ~5 turns with no cards.

Copy paste report if you want it, it's just too big otherwise.

[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables wins!
All but one player has resigned.

cards in supply: Chapel, Festival, Goons, Island, King's Court, Laboratory, Library, Masquerade, Potion, Spy, and Transmute

----------------------

#1 [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables: 24 points (24 ▼); 18 turns
opening: Chapel / Silver
[21 cards] 8 Laboratories, 6 King's Courts, 3 Festivals, 2 Goons, 1 Chapel, 1 Masquerade

#2 Opponent: resigned (1st); 19 turns
opening: Silver / Island
[15 cards] 4 Islands, 1 Chapel, 1 King's Court, 1 Laboratory, 5 Coppers, 2 Estates, 1 Province

----------------------

trash: 4 Silvers, a Gold, an Island, a King's Court, 13 Coppers, 4 Estates, and a Chapel
league game: no

Game log

Turn order is Opponent and then [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables.

(Opponent's first hand: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's first hand: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- Opponent's turn 1 ---
Opponent plays 3 Coppers.
Opponent buys a Silver.
(Opponent draws: an Estate and 4 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 1 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays 3 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Chapel.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: an Estate and 4 Coppers.)

--- Opponent's turn 2 ---
Opponent plays 4 Coppers.
Opponent buys an Island.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: an Estate, 3 Coppers, and an Island.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 2 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays 4 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Silver.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: 2 Estates, a Silver, a Chapel, and a Copper.)

--- Opponent's turn 3 ---
Opponent plays an Island.
... setting aside the Island with an Estate.
Opponent plays 3 Coppers.
Opponent buys a Silver.
(Opponent draws: a Silver and 4 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 3 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing 2 Estates and a Copper.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: 5 Coppers.)

--- Opponent's turn 4 ---
Opponent plays a Silver and 4 Coppers.
Opponent buys a Goons.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: 2 Estates and 3 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 4 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays 5 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Festival.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: an Estate, a Silver, and 3 Coppers.)

--- Opponent's turn 5 ---
Opponent plays 3 Coppers.
Opponent buys a Silver.
(Opponent draws: a Goons, 2 Silvers, and 2 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 5 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Silver and 3 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Chapel, 3 Coppers, and a Festival.)

--- Opponent's turn 6 ---
Opponent plays a Goons.
... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables discards 2 cards.
Opponent plays 2 Silvers and 2 Coppers.
Opponent buys a King's Court.
... getting +1 ▼.
Opponent buys a Copper.
... getting +1 ▼.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: 2 Silvers and 3 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 6 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing 2 Coppers.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Silver, an Estate, a Laboratory, and 2 Coppers.)

--- Opponent's turn 7 ---
Opponent plays 2 Silvers and 3 Coppers.
Opponent buys a King's Court.
(Opponent draws: a Goons, 2 Estates, a Silver, and a Copper.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 7 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Festival.
... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing an Estate.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Silver and 2 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Gold.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Silver, 3 Coppers, and a Festival.)

--- Opponent's turn 8 ---
Opponent plays a Goons.
... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables discards 2 cards.
Opponent plays a Silver and a Copper.
Opponent buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
Opponent buys a Copper.
... getting +1 ▼.
(Opponent draws: a King's Court and 4 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 8 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Festival.
... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Silver and a Copper.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Silver, a Gold, a Laboratory, a Chapel, and a Copper.)

--- Opponent's turn 9 ---
Opponent plays a King's Court.
... but plays no action with it.
Opponent plays 4 Coppers.
Opponent buys an Island.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: a Laboratory, 2 Silvers, and 2 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 9 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing a Copper.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Gold, a Silver, and 2 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Chapel, 2 Laboratories, a Festival, and a Copper.)

--- Opponent's turn 10 ---
Opponent plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
Opponent plays 2 Silvers and 4 Coppers.
Opponent buys a Province.
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Estate, a Goons, and 2 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 10 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Festival.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... and plays the Festival again.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... and plays the Festival a third time.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing a Silver and 2 Coppers.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Gold.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Festival, a King's Court, a Laboratory, a Copper, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 11 ---
Opponent plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Goons.
... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables discards 2 cards.
... and plays the Goons again.
... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables only has 3 cards.
... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables only has 3 cards.
Opponent plays 2 Coppers.
Opponent buys an Island.
... getting +1 ▼.
Opponent buys an Island.
... getting +1 ▼.
Opponent buys a Copper.
... getting +1 ▼.
Opponent buys a Copper.
... getting +1 ▼.
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Island, and 3 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 11 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Festival.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... and plays the Festival again.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... and plays the Festival a third time.
... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing a Copper.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Gold.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Goons.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Masquerade.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: 2 Laboratories, a King's Court, a Masquerade, and a Festival.)

--- Opponent's turn 12 ---
Opponent plays a King's Court.
... and plays an Island.
... ... setting aside the Island with a Copper.
... and plays the Island again.
... ... setting aside a Copper.
... and plays the Island a third time.
... ... setting aside a Copper.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Estate, a Silver, a Copper, and a Province.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 12 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Goons.
... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... Opponent discards 2 cards.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Masquerade.
... ... drawing nothing.
... ... trashing a Copper.
... and plays the Masquerade again.
... ... drawing nothing.
... and plays the Masquerade a third time.
... ... drawing nothing.
... ... trashing a Silver.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Gold.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Laboratory, a Gold, a King's Court, a Goons, and a Masquerade.)

--- Opponent's turn 13 ---
Opponent plays a Festival.
... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
Opponent plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Chapel.
... ... trashing nothing.
... and plays the Chapel again.
... ... trashing nothing.
... and plays the Chapel a third time.
... ... trashing nothing.
Opponent buys a Chapel.
(Opponent draws: a Silver, 2 Islands, and 2 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 13 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent discards 2 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... but plays no action with it.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... but plays no action with it.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Gold.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Chapel.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Goons, a Masquerade, a King's Court, a Laboratory, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 14 ---
Opponent plays an Island.
... setting aside the Island with an Island.
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Estate, and 3 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 14 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing a Gold.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent discards 2 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Masquerade.
... drawing nothing.
... trashing a Copper.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: 2 King's Courts, 2 Laboratories, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 15 ---
Opponent does nothing.
(Opponent draws: a Goons, a Silver, a Laboratory, and 2 Coppers.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 15 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... ... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
... ... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... ... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Goons.
... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... Opponent discards 2 cards.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing nothing.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Masquerade.
... ... drawing nothing.
... ... trashing a Silver.
... and plays the Masquerade again.
... ... drawing nothing.
... and plays the Masquerade a third time.
... ... drawing nothing.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Goons.
... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... Opponent only has 1 card.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys an Island.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Masquerade, 2 Laboratories, an Island, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 16 ---
Opponent plays a Laboratory.
... (Opponent reshuffles.)
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
(Opponent draws: an Estate, 3 Coppers, and a Chapel.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 16 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent discards 2 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... and plays a King's Court.
... ... ... and plays a Chapel.
... ... ... ... trashing nothing.
... ... ... and plays the Chapel again.
... ... ... ... trashing nothing.
... ... ... and plays the Chapel a third time.
... ... ... ... trashing an Island.
... ... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... ... and plays a Masquerade.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... trashing a Copper.
... ... ... and plays the Masquerade again.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... trashing a Copper.
... ... ... and plays the Masquerade a third time.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... trashing a Copper.
... ... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... ... but plays no action with it.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Goons, a King's Court, 2 Laboratories, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 17 ---
Opponent does nothing.
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Estate, a Silver, a Chapel, and a Festival.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 17 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Chapel.
... trashing nothing.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a King's Court.
... ... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent discards 2 cards.
... ... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... ... and plays a Masquerade.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... trashing a Silver.
... ... ... and plays the Masquerade again.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... trashing a King's Court.
... ... ... and plays the Masquerade a third time.
... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... and plays a Festival.
... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... and plays the Festival again.
... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... and plays the Festival a third time.
... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... but plays no action with it.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Festival.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a King's Court, 3 Laboratories, and a Festival.)

--- Opponent's turn 18 ---
Opponent does nothing.
(Opponent reshuffles.)
(Opponent draws: a King's Court, an Estate, 2 Coppers, and a Chapel.)

--- [UWSFFS] I Eat Tables's turn 18 ---
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Laboratory.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory again.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
... and plays the Laboratory a third time.
... ... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a Laboratory.
... drawing nothing and getting +1 action.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables plays a King's Court.
... and plays a King's Court.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent discards 2 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... and plays a Goons.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons again.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... ... and plays the Goons a third time.
... ... ... getting +1 buy and +$2.
... ... ... Opponent only has 3 cards.
... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... and plays a King's Court.
... ... ... and plays a Festival.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... ... and plays the Festival again.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... ... and plays the Festival a third time.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... ... and plays a Festival.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... ... and plays the Festival again.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... ... and plays the Festival a third time.
... ... ... ... getting +2 actions, +1 buy, and +$2.
... ... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... ... and plays a King's Court.
... ... ... ... and plays a Chapel.
... ... ... ... ... trashing nothing.
... ... ... ... and plays the Chapel again.
... ... ... ... ... trashing nothing.
... ... ... ... and plays the Chapel a third time.
... ... ... ... ... trashing nothing.
... ... ... and plays the King's Court again.
... ... ... ... and plays a Masquerade.
... ... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... ... trashing a Copper.
... ... ... ... and plays the Masquerade again.
... ... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... ... trashing an Estate.
... ... ... ... and plays the Masquerade a third time.
... ... ... ... ... drawing nothing.
... ... ... ... ... trashing a Chapel.
... ... ... and plays the King's Court a third time.
... ... ... ... but plays no action with it.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a King's Court.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Festival.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables buys a Laboratory.
... getting +1 ▼.
... getting +1 ▼.
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables reshuffles.)
([UWSFFS] I Eat Tables draws: a Laboratory, 2 King's Courts, a Goons, and a Chapel.)

--- Opponent's turn 19 ---
Opponent resigns from the game (client disconnected or unresponsive).

All but one player has resigned.
[UWSFFS] I Eat Tables wins!
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Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
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Lower Saxony
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I also tried this against my wife who didn't know anything about the combo before-hand. I got a little lucky, I admit, with 3 or so KC+Masquerade which helped me clear my deck of all ballast quickly. Then I demonstrated her for 2 or 3 turns that she effectively has no chance to do anything but watch her deck killed. We then stopped the experience.

That said, you may win this way exactly once against any opponent.
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Nate S
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Austin
Texas
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I Eat Tables wrote:
As it turns out, against an unsuspecting opponent this strategy can actually work.

I believe that it could work once against an unsuspecting opponent who is also of middling skill and was not planning to frequently use Goons or Masquerade. With KC on the board I would expect competent strategies that mostly ignore those 2 cards but fail to end the game by turn 14 are going to be very rare. Against incompetent strategies you don't need deeply clever combos to win, and buying Coppers for 1 VP each at turn 11 is absolutely not a mark of competence
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Tim Gilberg
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Norman
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ghorsche wrote:
"This extremely difficult to build combo involving a bunch of expensive cards and the elimination of every other card from my deck is broken because if your opponents are truly inept you might be able to build it before they end the game."

"Oh, and if they are really and truly F'd in the head they might be too dumb to harry me with Masquerade or Goons while I'm trying to build this delicate piece of machinery."

I need a thumbs down button for every thread involving the word "broken".


And I need a way to give multiple thumbs up to a post.
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Matt N

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I hate to be that guy, but isotropic session reports should be posted under sessions to clog up the forum, irritate people, and earn easy geekgold, not posted as relevant responses to a topic at hand.

As for the viability of the strategy, it could work as a counter to a game-stalling VP token strategy. If my goons engine is worse than your goons engine and I can't buy good VP cards consistently, I'm normally supposed to lose.
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Rob Neuhaus
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ghorsche wrote:
"This extremely difficult to build combo involving a bunch of expensive cards and the elimination of every other card from my deck is broken because if your opponents are truly inept you might be able to build it before they end the game."

"Oh, and if they are really and truly F'd in the head they might be too dumb to harry me with Masquerade or Goons while I'm trying to build this delicate piece of machinery."

I need a thumbs down button for every thread involving the word "broken".


It is not neccessary to get rid of every other card from your deck. You just need to play or hide away all of your cards turning your turn. Black market works for money, or haven/island/native village for VP. Conditioned on having Masquerade and KC in the game, I think getting rid of your initial 10 cards should be pretty easy. Then you just have to focus on buying non-terminal actions, or at least having enough KCs and +actions to play the rest of your terminals.

Is Goons -> KC/Masquerade all that different than Kc/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge?

I don't know. Goons -> KC/Masq is much more painful for the opponent. They literally figuratively don't get to play if you combo loop. It has the potential to win the game even after your opponent has purchased more than half the total VP in the game, which bridge can't do by itself. You could even get rid of the goons and still pull this off with a militia by trashing an opponents entire deck (which actually isn't hard if the combo is reliable), and then just sniping a single estate and winning the game.
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David desJardins
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Burlingame
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rrenaud wrote:
I don't know. Goons -> KC/Masq is much more painful for the opponent. They literally don't get to play if you combo loop.


No, they literally do get to play. You get a turn even if you have zero cards in hand. Your options for it are just fairly limited.
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dghunter79 dghunter79

California
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I played against it. It really is tough to beat. I believe you have to end the game before he gets it going. The first time we played I had four provinces, king's courts, goons... but once this deck gets going you're pinned. The game is over.

You lose your hand. Two cards you have the privilege of merely discarding to the goons. The other three you're forced to hand over to him, and he trashes them. He trashes your provinces and king's courts. Eventually, the cards you have tried to save by discarding them are also handed over, and you have nothing but whatever VP you've accumulated. Then, he can do whatever he likes. You may be able to buy a few coppers before he ends the game on piles with a heap of goons VP.

Because this combo is so absolute, if you play it you only need to finish the set-up before your opponent has ended the game -- not before your opponent gets a "big lead." And it's not actually that hard a deck to set up. In fact, once you have the two king's courts, you're about halfway there. King's court/masquerade lets you trash three cards at once. And even while setting it up, you're messing with your opponent's hand constantly.

From my experience playing a few games against this strategy I'd confirm -- the game is "broken" with those cards in the set, in that the only way to consistently beat this strategy is with itself.

Maybe there's a simple way to break back against this strategy that I didn't figure. But I recommend playing against it before passing judgment.
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Michael Brandt
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Given that any specific 3-card combo will show up less than .05% of the time*, I'd be hesitant to say that any such combo really breaks the game. Also, as Nate pointed out, opponents playing Goons and Masquerade along the way of you trying to build it is sure to muck up your engine. And you've got to hope no one has managed to build a deck that can play a Goons every turn, even if you're down to your four cards; if you get down to 4 cards, then someone else plays a Goons, you're pretty much SOL.
I've also built some double-Tactician and other full-draw decks capable of laying down a Ghost Ship every turn, quicker than this KC-KC-Masquerade-Goons deck gets built. In this case, of course, Ghost Ship can be replaced with Militia, or conveniently Goons.

*Divide the total number of ways to have a Kingdom with x specific cards by the total number of possible Kingdoms:

(x choose x) * ((116-x) choose (10-x)) / (116 choose 10)

With x=3, the probability is

(113 choose 7) / (116 choose 10)

You need to choose 7 cards from the 113 you haven't preselected, out of the possible ways to choose 10 from the 116 cards that are available. This works out to .00047, multiply by 100 for percentage gives .047.
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David desJardins
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Burlingame
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michaeljb wrote:
Given that any specific 3-card combo will show up less than .05% of the time*, I'd be hesitant to say that any such combo really breaks the game.


It's not part of the rules of the game that you must select cards at random. The players are supposed to agree on how to choose what cards to use.

On Isotropic, people creating games can control what cards are in them. You don't get to know if the cards are random.
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David desJardins
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michaeljb wrote:
And you've got to hope no one has managed to build a deck that can play a Goons every turn, even if you're down to your four cards; if you get down to 4 cards, then someone else plays a Goons, you're pretty much SOL.


I think you're confused about the concept. The plan isn't to winnow your entire deck down to these four cards. Just to build a deck that lets you draw and play every card, ending with these.
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Tyler Lloyd
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Just thought I'd point out that, to whatever extent this combo "breaks" the game (if at all), it only does so in a 2-player game. Still a great combo in any circumstance, though.

I wonder if the instructions on Masquerade should be changed so that only players who pass a card can receive a card. Maybe we could adopt this as an unwritten rule, kinda like Donald X's opinion that Throne Room should be optional like King's Court.
 
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