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Subject: Uncontrollable Urges officially fixed rss

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Mariano Rico
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Hi fellow Geeks

Designer finnally replied to my question about the use of UU and possible limitation to avoid broken game situations. Here is his answer :


Uncontrollable urges can only use this card once per turn per target. This means that the keeper can force an investigator to use each item once per turn (and/or move once per turn)
.
I hope this answers your question!
-Corey Konieczka
VP of R&D
Fantasy Flight Games




So max one move per turn per investigator and/or one use of allowed items per turn per investigator. I believe this fixes most problems we were finding with this card.

The bad news is we have another card to be fixed. Really hope they provide all these in the coming expansion for those who bought first edition.
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Tim Myers
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Acererak wrote:
... The bad news is we have another card to be fixed. Really hope they provide all these in the coming expansion for those who bought first edition.

In the past FFG has done this for several games and included replacement cards for the base game in an expansion.
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N S
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In the meantime they need to issue another official errata sheet, to incorporate this and the other corrections not included in the last one.
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Brian Modreski
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I'll stick with our fix of "once per game, period" instead.
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Chris Ferejohn
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StormKnight wrote:
I'll stick with our fix of "once per game, period" instead.


Wow, that makes it completely useless. Actually, the official fix pretty seriously gimps it. In scenario 1 I was forced to move an investigator twice to get them alone in order to even bring out any maniacs. Once they objective was revealed, they barricaded themselves in such a way that this was literally the only thing I could do. I ended up losing anyway, but with this "fix" I may as well have instantly given up.
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Brian Modreski
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Quote:
Wow, that makes it completely useless.

No, that makes it just as useful as it currently is - ONCE.

Quote:
In scenario 1 I was forced to move an investigator twice to get them alone in order to even bring out any maniacs.

I am close to 100% certain that this is not true. I think there is only one place in the mansion investigators can stand where you can't move an investigator one space and have someone alone. And they certainly can't spend the whole game hanging out in the foyer.

Quote:
Once they objective was revealed, they barricaded themselves in such a way that this was literally the only thing I could do.

No, its not. The mythos deck is absolutely filled with nasty things to do to the investigators, and that includes ways to move them around.
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Patrick
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cferejohn wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
I'll stick with our fix of "once per game, period" instead.


Wow, that makes it completely useless. Actually, the official fix pretty seriously gimps it. In scenario 1 I was forced to move an investigator twice to get them alone in order to even bring out any maniacs. Once they objective was revealed, they barricaded themselves in such a way that this was literally the only thing I could do. I ended up losing anyway, but with this "fix" I may as well have instantly given up.

I agree. There are times when you need to use this multiple times. As long as you aren't cheesing your way to victory I see no reason to fix this.
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Patrick
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
Wow, that makes it completely useless.

No, that makes it just as useful as it currently is - ONCE.

And that makes the card useless.

If you want a nice friendly storytelling game go play an RPG or heroquest.
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Mariano Rico
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corkysru wrote:
As long as you aren't cheesing your way to victory I see no reason to fix this.


Because it allows you to cheese your way to victory maybe?
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Acererak wrote:
corkysru wrote:
As long as you aren't cheesing your way to victory I see no reason to fix this.


Because it allows you to cheese your way to victory maybe?

Well there are two ways to fix that:
Permanently remove the occasional ability to abuse this card in times of desperate need (which honestly is pretty rare.. I mean... it costs 2 threat and unless you are just hoarding it and not spending it then you usually can't do this that often anyways..)
OR
Just quit playing with or physically abuse any Keepers who rely on cheese to win.
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Dale Quimpo
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corkysru wrote:
Acererak wrote:
corkysru wrote:
As long as you aren't cheesing your way to victory I see no reason to fix this.


Because it allows you to cheese your way to victory maybe?

Well there are two ways to fix that:
Permanently remove the occasional ability to abuse this card in times of desperate need (which honestly is pretty rare.. I mean... it costs 2 threat and unless you are just hoarding it and not spending it then you usually can't do this that often anyways..)
OR
Just quit playing with or physically abuse any Keepers who rely on cheese to win.


If you can use it to cheese out your opponents and you don't, that makes the card useless.

If you want a nice friendly storytelling game go play an RPG or heroquest.
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Brian Modreski
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Quote:
If you want a nice friendly storytelling game go play an RPG or heroquest.

If we wanted a nice friendly storytelling game, we wouldn't need to fix the card. We want a game where the Keeper can play full on brutally nasty as they can and still have the game be exciting and fun.

Uncontrollable Urges sucks. Unbelievably. It is a horrific tragedy of bad design that should never have made it into a game, ever. It has virtually no purpose in existing except to make the game more boring and to encourage investigators to do stupidly un-thematic things. ("Oh crap, I found a torch - I better drop it on the ground or I'll probably accidentally set something important on fire!").

Once per game is a slight step back up from our initial rule of "throw out the card and don't use it in the game at all".

It amazing how much more fun the stories that have UU become when you take that card out.
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Alex Martinez
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
If you want a nice friendly storytelling game go play an RPG or heroquest.

If we wanted a nice friendly storytelling game, we wouldn't need to fix the card. We want a game where the Keeper can play full on brutally nasty as they can and still have the game be exciting and fun.

Uncontrollable Urges sucks. Unbelievably. It is a horrific tragedy of bad design that should never have made it into a game, ever. It has virtually no purpose in existing except to make the game more boring and to encourage investigators to do stupidly un-thematic things. ("Oh crap, I found a torch - I better drop it on the ground or I'll probably accidentally set something important on fire!").

Once per game is a slight step back up from our initial rule of "throw out the card and don't use it in the game at all".

It amazing how much more fun the stories that have UU become when you take that card out.


It sounds to me as if this is more of an issue with your gaming group. Perhaps the investigators just detest losing control of their investigators, if even only for a moment. If you want to get rid of it, then do so by all means. But don't mistake a particular flaw being gamebreaking for your group as being gamebreaking for every group.

On the flip side, if you find the card disrupts your enjoyment this much, then I heartily endorse your desire to remove it.

Every gaming group has different needs, wants different things from a game. There really doesn't need to be an OFFICIAL errata for stuff like this when players can just agree among themselves because, honestly, we should all have a better idea of what we want in the game than any errata ever could.

I'll keep Uncontrollable Urges in my game though, of course, I'll put in my own errata that allows it to work for me. Everyone should always feel free to do the same.

At the same time, I don't see the point in keeping it at all if it's only usable once per game. Just put it aside and forget about it. You'll be glad you did, and if it makes your experience fun, who cares how anyone else feels about it?
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Brian,

You haven't seen many horror movies then, eh? PS - people get possessed in them. It is very thematic.
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Phil Mawson
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Inntrepid wrote:
Acererak wrote:
... The bad news is we have another card to be fixed. Really hope they provide all these in the coming expansion for those who bought first edition.

In the past FFG has done this for several games and included replacement cards for the base game in an expansion.


Afraid it's time to get printing stickers or get the biro. Unless corrected cards appear in a future expansion. Anyway, here is the answer I got from Thaad today regarding replacement cards:

Quote:
Hello Phil,

Unfortunately there are not plans to print a fix pack, for logistical reasons. It's not too uncommon for our games to have errata text on cards, and one suggestion is to sleeve the cards (always a good idea!) and to tuck the new text in there. Otherwise, you can reference a printed out sheet of the changes...

Sorry to not have better news on this one. I understand people are upset, particularly as we had caught some errors and fixed them - but not all - but I don't think the answer will change on this one.

Thanks for playing,
Thaadd Powell
Customer Service
Fantasy Flight Games
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Seth Pontiff
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So other than wasting an item, what's the use of forcing an investigator to use an item on a specific target?
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Brian Modreski
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Quote:
But don't mistake a particular flaw being gamebreaking for your group as being gamebreaking for every group.

I am sure its not game breaking for every group. It is, however, very bad game design.

The mythos deck has lots of cards to let you move investigators and some to get rid of objects. Because the Keeper can only hold 4 mythos cards, looking for such cards encourages playing the cards you have. It brings movement and action to the game. Things keep happening, things keep changing. The Keeper needs to consider actions carefully; is now the right time to play this card? Can I string together several cards effectively?

The Investigators can never be sure of what's coming from the mythos deck. How fast can I get across the room? I should be able to make it...unless something unexpected happens...

Relying on the mythos decks creates mystery, suspense, and interesting choices.

Relying on UU creates stagnation as the Keeper saves up, boring situations where everyone knows what's going to happen, slogging feelings as investigators simply get pushed back each turn, and repetitiveness.

UU should never, ever, have made it into the game in the form it did. It seems to have a lot of company in that regard.
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Alex Martinez
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StormKnight wrote:
Relying on UU creates stagnation as the Keeper saves up, boring situations where everyone knows what's going to happen, slogging feelings as investigators simply get pushed back each turn, and repetitiveness.

UU should never, ever, have made it into the game in the form it did. It seems to have a lot of company in that regard.


Again, I state that for my group, the card has not been a problem. Regardless of the number of people who agree with you, it doesn't necessarily make you right.

My point though isn't to start a debate on whether or not the card is "broken". It clearly can be, though it clearly works fine for other groups too. My point is that instead of debating the merits of the card, we should just adapt it to however it works best for you.
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Quinn G.
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Using UU at 2 threat a shot? I can not imagine any scenario in which this would upset the game. My investigators would be laughing their asses off at my retarded use of my threat, pick their item back up or move back where they wanted to be, and move on with the adventure secure in the fact that the keeper is incompetent.

edit: this is assuming the official errata on the card is in place, which is exactly how our group has been playing it. I'm sure having your keeper save up for 20 turns to abuse one investigator near the end of the game could cause problems.. but obviously that isn't a scenario which actually exists in this game as it is not allowed by the rules.
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Kevin Outlaw
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I play against my wife who normally has 2 investigators. That gives me 2 threat a turn. That's one use of UU.

She plays on the move - she knows that if she keeps moving I have to pay threat to chase her with my monsters.

I want mythos and trauma cards - threat points.

In scenario 1A, to even get a single monster on the board costs 4 threat points.

You just don't have enough threat to abuse UU.

I haven't played against four investigators, so maybe it is worse then; but even so, I can't see you using it more than once per turn without seriously hindering your ability to use other powers.

I really like UU - I think it is a clever, thematic card that can really throw a spanner in the works for the investigators when played at just the right time (just when they are beginning to forget you even have that card at your disposal).

But each to their own.
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Chris Linneman
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UU only breaks in one scenario that I have played--4A--because it can allow the Keeper to enter into an infinite loop of threat-gaining. This is because there is an item that forces an attribute test with the penalty for failure being that the Keeper gains 4 threat. If the investigator in question has less than a 50% chance of passing this check, it is strictly +EV for the Keeper to use UU on this item continuously ad infinitum. Compounded with this is the fact that
Spoiler (click to reveal)
in order to win the investigators need to leave the way they came in. So the limitless threat can be then used with UU to prevent them from ever reaching the exit.


I like the fix. It is small enough that it allows for some very creative use of the ability while preventing abuse of UU in clear cases where it makes the game unfun and literally impossible for the investigators to win.
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Mariano Rico
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Nyogtha wrote:


Afraid it's time to get printing stickers or get the biro. Unless corrected cards appear in a future expansion. Anyway, here is the answer I got from Thaad today regarding replacement cards:

Quote:
Hello Phil,

Unfortunately there are not plans to print a fix pack, for logistical reasons. It's not too uncommon for our games to have errata text on cards, and one suggestion is to sleeve the cards (always a good idea!) and to tuck the new text in there. Otherwise, you can reference a printed out sheet of the changes...

Sorry to not have better news on this one. I understand people are upset, particularly as we had caught some errors and fixed them - but not all - but I don't think the answer will change on this one.

Thanks for playing,
Thaadd Powell
Customer Service
Fantasy Flight Games


This is quite discouraging. We are back to the sleeve the cards solution. They repeat it so much that you can tell the marketing department has told everyone to promote them like crazy. Annoying stuff.

I am not a component fanatic by any means, and I could put up with this whole errata issues if the company attitude was a bit more customer friendly. But from what I perceive, they are going down the wrong path.

I still hold some hopes for the future of this game and the much needed polishing opportunity they will have with the first expansion. I do trust Corey. We will see.
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Alex Martinez
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Sorry, but this seems like much ado about nothing. If you're obsessive about this stuff that having a card without simple errata wording on it, then just do yourself a favor and DON'T buy the game. It's not poor customer service to not spend thousands of dollars correcting a problem that can be more efficiently handled with a simple errata sheet.

Guys, I know we love our games. That's why we're here. But let's not fall victim to this level of obsessiveness.
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Mariano Rico
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KingCroc wrote:
Sorry, but this seems like much ado about nothing. If you're obsessive about this stuff that having a card without simple errata wording on it, then just do yourself a favor and DON'T buy the game. It's not poor customer service to not spend thousands of dollars correcting a problem that can be more efficiently handled with a simple errata sheet.

Guys, I know we love our games. That's why we're here. But let's not fall victim to this level of obsessiveness.


I am not asking for anything they have not done in the past : put the corrected cards in the future expansion. The "sleeve the cards" solution when they are actually selling those sleeves themselves is at least, a questionable policy, from my point of view.

Simple errata wording can easily ruin quite a few sessions, my friend. Specially in this game. Specially in Keeper Action cards like the one we are discussing here. And this change confirmed by Corey is NOT in the FAQ published before you send me there. And is a pretty big change.

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[q="StormKnight"]
Quote:
The mythos deck has lots of cards to let you move investigators and some to get rid of objects. Because the Keeper can only hold 4 mythos cards, looking for such cards encourages playing the cards you have. It brings movement and action to the game. Things keep happening, things keep changing. The Keeper needs to consider actions carefully; is now the right time to play this card? Can I string together several cards effectively?


Your mythos deck different each story though. You have to take the cards with the symbols to match the one for the story. If all groups in the mythos deck have these, then I can see your point, a little.

I don't have access to the game currently, but I wonder if the stories that have UU are the ones that don't have those particular Mythos cards.
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