Tom Rosen
United States
Arlington
Virginia
-
I can't tell from the rules whether players are allowed to develop land that has a pilgrim, barn, or ship on it. It is clear that you can only place pilgrims, barns, and ships on land that is undeveloped, but later in the game are you allowed to develop that land? The photographs from the image gallery give differing answers. Image number 56545 by Superfage seems to suggest that you can develop land that has a unit on it. However, image number 35518 by clearclaw seems to suggest that you cannot develop land that has a unit on it because at the end of the game, none of the tiles with units on them have been developed. Any rules clarifications on this would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
-
Phil Alberg
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
UG18 04-Feb Woburn, MA
-
Placing a ship, barn, or pilgrim is considered a development, as a development card is used to bring them onto the board. The only way you can re-develop such land is by first moving the pilgrim or ship to another location and then developing the open land.
-
Duncan Gibson
United Arab Emirates
Dubai
Will play any game... especially for food.
I moved from Oz to UAE and all I got was this lousy flag.
-
Note that pilgrims & ships are still only allowed on undeveloped tiles as far as I remember. And that you can't move barns.
-
Michael Commorato
United States
Stroudsburg
Pennsylvania
-
I agree that SOMETHING has to be moved, either Pilgrim or Ship because it states that you MAY move these to other undeveloped tiles and that you may NOT move barns.
However, the rules are VERY vague on this and they NEVER state that once you develop a land, you MUST move any Pilgrim or Ship from it in order to develop.
The rules only state that when placing Pilgrims, Ships or Barns that they can only be PLACED on undeveloped tiles. Not that they can't REMAIN.
However, on the other side of this, what's the sense of having these pieces if they weren't meant to be moved?
So, I guess they do have to be relocated to undeveloped land if you want to develop land they're on.
Poorly written rules to an otherwise great game.
Any feedback on this would be appreciated, especially if anyone can point out where in the rules it states that you MUST move your Pilgrim or Ship to undeveloped land so you can develop land.
Mike
-
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
-
AS Phil pointed out, putting a P, S or B on a tile is a Development...
-
Michael Commorato
United States
Stroudsburg
Pennsylvania
-
Spielfreak wrote: Placing a ship, barn, or pilgrim is considered a development, as a development card is used to bring them onto the board. The only way you can re-develop such land is by first moving the pilgrim or ship to another location and then developing the open land.
Correct in saying that Ships, Barns and Pilgrims need development cards to bring them into play on undeveloped land tiles. That I agree.
Phil also says that in order to develop land, any Pilgrims or Ships on them must be moved to OTHER undeveloped land tiles. A land tile with a Barn on it CANNOT be developed because, in some unwritten rule, you MUST move a Pilgrim or Ship to develop land.
Does anyone know where this is stated in the rules?
I'll give another wacky situation: I emailed Uberplay and asked them this same question. Their answer: Barns cannot move (we know) and they had know idea about moving Pilgrims and Ships so you can develop land they were on. They'd have to 'check on it'! Wow! They don't even know!
Can someone show me the rule where you have to move Pilgrims and Ships so you can develop land?
Thanks everyone!
Mike Commorato
-
Phil Alberg
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
UG18 04-Feb Woburn, MA
-
1. Development cards come in two types: building cards (either green, black or brown) and object cards (barns, pilgrims, or ships).
2. The act of using a development card causes the target land tile(s) to be considered as developed.
A land tile may be developed in either of two ways: either be flipping it in response to playing one of the building cards, or by placing a wooden piece on it in response to playing one of the object cards. If a tile has an object on it, it may not be developed any further, unless the object (in the case of a pilgrim or ship) is first moved to an undeveloped tile.
3. Once a tile has either been flipped or has an object on it, it is considered developed.
4. You cannot develop a land tile for two uses (e.g. flipping it and supporting a pilgrim), as development must occur on undeveloped land.
-
Michael Commorato
United States
Stroudsburg
Pennsylvania
-
By jove, I actually think that makes sense!
Thanks!
I should write Uberplay's staff and explain the rule to them as they were unable to answer it like you did.
I knew the Pilgrim and Barn HAD to be moved to undeveloped land to develop what they were on. Just didn't know why the rules were so unclear on this very important subject.
Appreciate the clear-up!
Mike
-
Sanjay Subrahmanyan
India
Chennai
Tamil Nadu
-
I am so glad I read this thread! My first play of New England was a disaster some 6 months back. My wife was half asleep when I was reading the rules and the game just did not move. Today I took it out again and the game seemed to have a much better feel to it. Also on the subject of whether a tile containing a figure can be flipped or developed, the rules are just comletely silent. So we just assumed and played that if a tile that has a figure has to be flipped, then figure if it is a ship or a pilgrim has to be moved. If there are no undeveloped tiles to move them to, then you cannot buy that development card and flip those tiles. as for the abrn, it is clear that once it has been placed, it cannot be moved. we also decided that the tile also cannot be flipped in congruence with the rule regarding the other figures.
Now after reading this thread I am so happy we followed what has been laid down above. I think the above makes sense and the game plays very well especially with 3 layers.
-
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
-
mercom wrote: I should write Uberplay's staff and explain the rule to them as they were unable to answer it like you did.
Most publishers have staff who are ordinary people - not geeks like us. They may (or may not) have played the games they sell, but they will rarely have the same insight as people in a forum such as this.
-
Jacob Lee
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
-
Spielfreak wrote: 3. Once a tile has either been flipped or has an object on it, it is considered developed.
But what does "considered" mean for the gameplay? I don't understand the value in having a blank tile that is considered developed. If ships and pilgrims can only be transferred to tiles that are undeveloped (blank side up), later on, can they be moved back to their original tile? Because originally, the pilgrim was on a developed tile ("considered developed"), so in the future, the pilgrim cannot move back to that tile because pilgrims can only move to "undeveloped" tiles. Correct?
-
Phil Alberg
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
UG18 04-Feb Woburn, MA
-
EmperorJacob wrote: Spielfreak wrote: 3. Once a tile has either been flipped or has an object on it, it is considered developed. But what does "considered" mean for the gameplay? I don't understand the value in having a blank tile that is considered developed. If ships and pilgrims can only be transferred to tiles that are undeveloped (blank side up), later on, can they be moved back to their original tile? Because originally, the pilgrim was on a developed tile ("considered developed"), so in the future, the pilgrim cannot move back to that tile because pilgrims can only move to "undeveloped" tiles. Correct?
A tile may be developed in either of two ways:
1) If a blank tile is used in a field/building configuration, it is flipped, and is considered developed for the rest of the game. Nothing more can be done to this tile. Once it is flipped, it cannot be used to support wooden pieces (pilgrim, ship, or barn).
2) If a blank tile has a wooden piece on it, then it is considered developed. If the piece is a barn, then it will stay developed for the rest of the game. If the piece is a pilgrim or a ship, then the tile can revert back to undeveloped if the piece is moved off of it and onto another blank tile (which itself then becomes developed). Think of this developed state as being temporary so long as the wooden piece is on the tile.
The value in having a blank tile that is considered developed is that you gain by having the wooden piece present on the board, and potentially gain by re-developing the tile later if it forms part of a field/building configuration. This second part, of course, assumes that you can move the wooden piece to another suitable location.
A pilgrim/ship piece CANNOT be moved back onto a tile that was once blank-side-up and is now flipped to its developed side. A pilgrim/ship piece CAN be moved to any blank-side-up tile (well, it has to be coastal for the ship).
-
Jacob Lee
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
-
Thanks for your reply, but I'm still unclear about why you'd even "consider" a tile developed?
It makes more sense to me to say that figures can only be placed on undeveloped tiles and that the tiles remain undeveloped. The idea of temporary development isn't thematic or necessary, in my mind.
I guess I'm just messing with your wording and not your understanding of the game (what do I know? I've only played it once). I see no value in "considering" a tile developed. I do see value in sometimes not developing a tile (so that a figure can go back to it in the future), but this short-term development concept confused me and I can see now that it really shouldn't be emphasized from a teaching perspective.
Since I'm not changing the rules, just the thematic interpretation of them, I find it simpler to explain tiles with figures on them as still being undeveloped. Unless I'm missing something, but I think I got it now.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
-
Phil Alberg
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
UG18 04-Feb Woburn, MA
-
I think my connotation of "considered developed" is necessary when a wooden piece is on it, otherwise you would be tempted to flip such a tile when creating a field/building. A field/building can only target undeveloped tiles. A blank tile with a wooden piece on it cannot be used for a field/building, unless the piece is moved to another tile.
This may not help with your thematic interpretation, but I find it does help when explaining the rules to new players.
-
|
|
Posted Sat May 28, 2005 8:43 pm
