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John Barry
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If you take the -3 cost to place a world in the settle phase, does that apply to both worlds placed w/Improved Logistics?

I assume it does not count between phases (if you chose settle, settle in 2p Advanced)

What about discarding a Green good w/Golden Age of terraforming? Does that last for both Improved Logistics worlds placed? Does it last for the next settle phase in 2p advanced when settle, settle is picked? If not, can you play it a second time (assuming you have a green good) and get the discount for the following settle phase?
 
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Ross G.
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For both benefits, they do apply to the improved logistics settle, but not to a second settle phase in 2p advanced. You may activate the discard power again in the second phase to get the benefit in that phase as well.
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GoingTharn wrote:
If you take the -3 cost to place a world in the settle phase, does that apply to both worlds placed w/Improved Logistics?
And to be clear: If you choose Prestige Settle, you don't choose either -3 cost or +2 military -- you get both (in the case where you want to place one of each type of world, or for takeover defense).
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Matthew Hurst
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This doesn't seem consistent. You don't get to draw a second settle bonus card for settling the second world with Improved Logistics; why should you get the -3 bonus twice?
 
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P. Fowler
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Zen Postman wrote:
This doesn't seem consistent. You don't get to draw a second settle bonus card for settling the second world with Improved Logistics; why should you get the -3 bonus twice?

Because it's the same settle phase. You don't get to draw the bonus twice because the bonus for choosing settle is:
Base rules, page 5 wrote:
Players who chose Settle, as the bonus, draw one card after placing and paying for (or conquering) a world.

So regardless if you settle one or three worlds, you only get to draw one card. But all your military is still useable for the second settle with Improved Logistics, including the Prestige bonus.

Ed:...and discounts too (including, but not limited to, Alpha Centauri, GAoT, Gem Smugglers, the Prestige bonus, etc.)
 
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Brendon Russell
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
[q="Zen Postman"]This doesn't seem consistent. You don't get to draw a second settle bonus card for settling the second world with Improved Logistics; why should you get the -3 bonus twice?

Because it's the same settle phase. You don't get to draw the bonus twice because the bonus for choosing settle is:
Base rules, page 5]Players who chose Settle, as the bonus, draw one card after placing and paying for (or conquering) a world.[/q wrote:

So regardless if you settle one or three worlds, you only get to draw one card. But all your military is still useable for the second settle with Improved Logistics, including the Prestige bonus.

Ed:...and discounts too (including, but not limited to, Alpha Centauri, GAoT, Gem Smugglers, the Prestige bonus, etc.)


The real tricky part is that, unlike the Settle phase bonus, the bonus card draw from cards like Terraforming Robots does apply to each world you settle.
 
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Zen Postman wrote:
This doesn't seem consistent. You don't get to draw a second settle bonus card for settling the second world with Improved Logistics; why should you get the -3 bonus twice?
It's actually the Settle Bonus that breaks the pattern. It got a special ruling with Improved Logistics, probably because it would be too powerful else. I think I remember Tom said this somewhere.
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
Because it's the same settle phase. You don't get to draw the bonus twice because the bonus for choosing settle is:
Base rules, page 5 wrote:
Players who chose Settle, as the bonus, draw one card after placing and paying for (or conquering) a world.
So regardless if you settle one or three worlds, you only get to draw one card. But all your military is still useable for the second settle with Improved Logistics, including the Prestige bonus.
This is not correct (as scwont pointed out). The wording is exactly the same on the Terraforming Robots power and the Settle bonus, but you don't get to draw more cards from the bonus because in the description of the Improved Logistics (and Rebel Sneak Attack) power(s), the rules say "If the player chose Settle, do not draw a Settle bonus for the second world."
 
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Tom Lehmann
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borgemik wrote:
Zen Postman wrote:
This doesn't seem consistent. You don't get to draw a second settle bonus card for settling the second world with Improved Logistics; why should you get the -3 bonus twice?
It's actually the Settle Bonus that breaks the pattern.

Correct. The idea is that each player's action selection is roughly worth 1 card (as it is for Develop and Explore+1 (relative to other players)). We didn't want to alter that balance among actions when we introduced Improved Logistics.

Most Settle powers, which are investments that a player must make towards a strategy -- unlike simply choosing a particular phase, do work for the second settle of Improved Logistics.

The exceptions are the Takeover a World powers (as noted in the RvI takeover rules), Colony Ship (which explicitly provides a reduced cost for one world), the Discard to Conquer a non-Military World powers (on Imperium Cloaking Technology and Imperium Invasion Fleet which, like Colony Ship, explicitly affect one world), and the replace world power of Terraforming Engineers (which doesn't interact with any other Settle powers and, thus, can occur only once per Settle phase).
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alexander stark
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I would want to summarize this subject. I'm still confused about spend good to reduce cost power combined with Improved Logistics after reading the present thread and this one : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/522992/spending-goods-reduc... (maybe my English isn't good enough to understand itblush).

With Improved Logistics:

-When I use a spend good to reduce cost power (like the power in Golden Age of Terraforming), is the -2 discount applied to the two planets I can put with only one good spent, or do I need to spend a second good to apply the discount on the second planet?

-I don't see in the Colony Ship that explicitly provides a reduced cost for one planet. It's text is the same as Golden Age of Terraforming. So I think that if the discount for spending good lasts the entire phase, it works the same with Colony Ship. This situation is the same with Doomed World which has the same text as Colony Ship.

-When you have the prestige bonus in Settle phase, the -3 discount applies to both planets you can place?

My problem is that I can't see when a power lasts the entire phase or only affects the next planet you place. For example New Military Tactics explicitly says that it lasts the entire round.
 
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Serge Levert
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alexandermagno wrote:
With Improved Logistics:

-When I use a spend good to reduce cost power (like the power in Golden Age of Terraforming), is the -2 -3 discount applied to the two planets I can put with only one good spent, or do I need to spend a second good to apply the discount on the second planet?

One good gives you -3 to both settles.

alexandermagno wrote:
-I don't see in the Colony Ship that explicitly provides a reduced cost for one planet. It's text is the same as Golden Age of Terraforming. So I think that if the discount for spending good lasts the entire phase, it works the same with Colony Ship. This situation is the same with Doomed World which has the same text as Colony Ship.

That's interesting. Colony Ship + Improved Logistics = 2 free worlds? That doesn't work, but by the wording it kinda sounds like it does, given how GAOT works. I think it's probably just awkward wording.

alexandermagno wrote:
-When you have the prestige bonus in Settle phase, the -3 discount applies to both planets you can place?

Yes.
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alexander stark
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entranced wrote:
alexandermagno wrote:
With Improved Logistics:

-When I use a spend good to reduce cost power (like the power in Golden Age of Terraforming), is the -2 -3 discount applied to the two planets I can put with only one good spent, or do I need to spend a second good to apply the discount on the second planet?

One good gives you -3 to both settles.

alexandermagno wrote:
-I don't see in the Colony Ship that explicitly provides a reduced cost for one planet. It's text is the same as Golden Age of Terraforming. So I think that if the discount for spending good lasts the entire phase, it works the same with Colony Ship. This situation is the same with Doomed World which has the same text as Colony Ship.

That's interesting. Colony Ship + Improved Logistics = 2 free worlds? That doesn't work, but by the wording it kinda sounds like it does, given how GAOT works. I think it's probably just awkward wording.

alexandermagno wrote:
-When you have the prestige bonus in Settle phase, the -3 discount applies to both planets you can place?

Yes.

Thanks for the answers.

About the Colony Ship wording I think the same. It surprises me that the game explains very well some rules in my opinion, while other aspects are very convoluted.

If you have two goods, could you use one for the first planet for a discount of -3, and later the other one for the second planet for a discount of -6, using the same power in the same card (for example GAOT)? Or could you only do this if you have two goods and two different card with the same discount powe?
 
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ackmondual
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alexandermagno wrote:
entranced wrote:
alexandermagno wrote:
With Improved Logistics:

-When I use a spend good to reduce cost power (like the power in Golden Age of Terraforming), is the -2 -3 discount applied to the two planets I can put with only one good spent, or do I need to spend a second good to apply the discount on the second planet?

One good gives you -3 to both settles.

alexandermagno wrote:
-I don't see in the Colony Ship that explicitly provides a reduced cost for one planet. It's text is the same as Golden Age of Terraforming. So I think that if the discount for spending good lasts the entire phase, it works the same with Colony Ship. This situation is the same with Doomed World which has the same text as Colony Ship.

That's interesting. Colony Ship + Improved Logistics = 2 free worlds? That doesn't work, but by the wording it kinda sounds like it does, given how GAOT works. I think it's probably just awkward wording.

alexandermagno wrote:
-When you have the prestige bonus in Settle phase, the -3 discount applies to both planets you can place?

Yes.

Thanks for the answers.

About the Colony Ship wording I think the same. It surprises me that the game explains very well some rules in my opinion, while other aspects are very convoluted.

If you have two goods, could you use one for the first planet for a discount of -3, and later the other one for the second planet for a discount of -6, using the same power in the same card (for example GAOT)? Or could you only do this if you have two goods and two different card with the same discount powe?
You can only spend 2 green goods to get a -6 discount in the same III phase if you have 2 different cards that let you do that. In this case, GAoT, and Lifeforms Inc.

For me, and during Keldon's AI, Colony Ship has only worked on one world even with Improved Logistics, as it's a "payment thing". It'd be like arguing that you paid 3 cards for a 3-cost world, so the 2nd world that costs 3 should also already be covered by the first payment.
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Tom Lehmann
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alexandermagno wrote:
If you have two goods, could you use one for the first planet for a discount of -3, and later the other one for the second planet for a discount of -6, using the same power in the same card (for example GAOT)?

No. A power can only be invoked once per phase.

Quote:
About the Colony Ship wording

You are conflating two different things: a power that *modifies* Settle actions (such as a discount power or a power that increases your Military) and a power that *replaces* your Settle action (such as Colony Ship or a Takeover power).

Powers that modify Settle actions modify all the Settle actions that occur in that phase.

Powers that replace Settle actions, such as Colony Ship, Discard to Conquer, and Takeover actions, replace *one* Settle action in a phase.

Improved Logistics (etc.) give you additional Settle actions in a Settle phase. They don't duplicate an action you take. Thus, they don't permit a given replacement Settle action to occur twice in one phase.
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alexander stark
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Thanks for the clarifications!! I've played the game a lot of times and these situations don't happen to me until now.
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Quote:
About the Colony Ship wording
You are conflating two different things: a power that *modifies* Settle actions (such as a discount power or a power that increases your Military) and a power that *replaces* your Settle action (such as Colony Ship or a Takeover power).
I just want to mention first that there has never been disagreement on how Colony Ship works in conjunction with Improved Logistics et al (i.e. it is only usable for placing *one* world).

I am however confused that you consider discarding Colony Ship as a *replacement* of the Settle action, akin to takeovers. I have always considered it as a cost reduction power (as it is listed along other cost reducing powers in the base rule book), so the decision of whether to use Colony Ship or to pay for the world normally can be made after all placed worlds are revealed (by all players).

A concrete question:
Can I both discard a Genes good to reduce cost (using Golden Age of Terraforming) and discard Colony Ship while placing a world? (It would seem superfluous, but I might want to produce an extra Genes good during a later Produce.)
 
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Tom Lehmann
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borgemik wrote:
I am however confused that you consider discarding Colony Ship as a *replacement* of the Settle action, akin to takeovers.

If using a Colony Ship wasn't a Settle action, then a player could both Settle a world normally *and* place a second world via Colony Ship. It has to count as an action (to prevent this) and, therefore, Improved Logistics doesn't work with Colony Ship.

Viewing it as a cost reduction power is what led the poster to revive this thread.

However, unlike takeovers, the world being settled is still placed during the normal placement step. As a result, a player has the choice of whether or not to use it when they also could pay for that world. Note, however, that if the player does not have the cards to pay for the world placed, then the player *must* use Colony Ship; they cannot choose to abort their intended Settle.

Essentially the same sequence is used for "Conquer non-Military World" powers, which also replace Settle actions. The "odd man out" here are the takeover powers, not Colony Ship, which is a result of players not being able to secretly and simultaneously indicate their intended Takeover targets during the world placement step.

Quote:
Can I both discard a Genes good to reduce cost (using Golden Age of Terraforming) and discard Colony Ship while placing a world?

Yes.
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