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Carolus Magnus» Forums » General

Subject: the dice rss

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Calvin Daniels
Canada
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how big a role do dice play in this game?

I gather it is not a perfect information game?
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Daniel Niemann
Germany
Hagen a.T.W.
Niedersachsen
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The dice determine the color of the cubes you get as a reinforcement. If you don't roll red e.g., you'll have no red cubes and thus no means of controlling red areas. You do have, however, a supply of seven cubes and you only place three of them each turn.

So, no, it's not a perfect information game, but luck does not play that big a role.
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Romain Jacques
Canada
Gatineau
Québec
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To make the game more strategic, Bruno Faduitti suggested a variant where one dice is always a joker. I like it.
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Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
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Daniel666 wrote:
So, no, it's not a perfect information game, but luck does not play that big a role.

It is not a perfect information game because of the stack of order chits which is formed, thus hiding which chits have been played; the fact that dice are thrown has very little to do with it. A game can be perfect information yet contain random elements!

The dice... Well, they have an influence in that they prevent players from building up impenetrable strongholds which are nearly impossible to take over. But it is not correct to attribute loss to them entirely: once every player has refilled their hand the action selection is very much a controlled choice. Replacing one die with a joker could alleviate some of the worst of the remaining capriciousness; the favoured solution is the open selection from n + 1 previously drawn groups of cubes where n = number of players. That variant can be found here in the subforum. But in order to keep the game moving, some randomness in the cube replenishment appears necessary.
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Drew
United States
Wisconsin
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cymric wrote:
It is not a perfect information game because of the stack of order chits which is formed, thus hiding which chits have been played; the fact that dice are thrown has very little to do with it. A game can be perfect information yet contain random elements!


Maarten . . . are you talking about Carolus Magnus? Order chits? My copy seems to be missing them.
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Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
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Those cardboard discs with numbers 1 to 5 on them? Or aren't they called order chits?


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Karl von Laudermann
United States
Unspecified
Massachusetts
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cymric wrote:
It is not a perfect information game because of the stack of order chits which is formed, thus hiding which chits have been played;

This is incorrect; the chits are supposed to be layed out just slightly overlapping so that you can see which ones have been played.
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Drew
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Wisconsin
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cymric wrote:
Those cardboard discs with numbers 1 to 5 on them? Or aren't they called order chits?


Oh, right! I just couldn't think of anything in the game that I could associate with the term "order chit."

Carry on! cool

Also, I would concur that these are definitely not hidden information. And much of the planning in CM involves knowing the movement capabilities of your opponent(s).

Quote:
This is incorrect; the chits are supposed to be layed out just slightly overlapping so that you can see which ones have been played.


Also, it wouldn't really matter which numbers have been played. What matters is which ones have yet to be played, and these are definitely displayed openly.


As to the original point, the randomness of the dice is not a game-breaker at all. If rolling for your reinforcements came first in your turn, it would be. But because it comes last, you (and more importantly, your opponents) can plan accordingly.
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