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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Women and Gaming

Subject: *sigh* Game design, marketing, and sexism. rss

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Gabriel Manasan
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tofarley wrote:
You're totally right. Every race should be included too, and let's not forget transgenders, they are people too.


You are exactly right. And in fact, the review in question does not discrminate against race, because it doesn't mention it at all. The reviewer did not say, "this is a game white folks will enjoy". Simply by not addressing race at all, the review is race-inclusive.

In the same manner, the reviewer could have used "child" instead of "boy", and with no extra effort at all, the review would have been a lot more inclusive. I don't think the OP was asking for a special callout to girls, just language that is not exclusionary.
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I find the "there are so many other things to get upset about so why are you bothering with posting about a game on a gaming forum" a strange argument.

For one thing, yeah, I do know about all those other evils. And I do post in other forums about them. This is a gaming forum. I'm posting about a game.

The second question I have if, if it's so...out of proportion for a woman to post in a forum entitled "Women and gaming" about an aspect of being a woman and gaming, how is it In proportion for men to post long critiques in this forum too? If my OP is over-reaction or looking to be offended, surely all of the posts responding to it are also over-reactions and looking to be offended?
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Brian McCormick
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It's sexist that you're posting this in the Women and Gaming forum. I'm offended you didn't also post it in the Men and Gaming forum.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Aurendrosl wrote:
It's sexist that you're posting this in the Women and Gaming forum. I'm offended you didn't also post it in the Men and Gaming forum.

You mean, the rest of BGG?
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Brian McCormick
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sdiberar wrote:
Aurendrosl wrote:
It's sexist that you're posting this in the Women and Gaming forum. I'm offended you didn't also post it in the Men and Gaming forum.

You mean, the rest of BGG?

You're sexist. It's sexist to assume that the rest of BGG is for men when it is not clearly labeled as such. I demand the OP post this thread in the "Men and Gaming" forum or else we have a double standard.
 
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Antonio Chavez
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Also, it's much easier to train LCD McD waitstaff to ask "Is this for a boy or girl" than... well, if you know a better way for someone who either speaks English poorly or has it as a second language, tell McD Corp that.

How about, "Which toy does your child want?"


That won't work. If you ask, "Boy or girl", you're asking a boolean question which the answer knows. If you ask "Which toy" you're asking an open ended question, and the answerer doesn't have enough information to answer with. You don't want to know how long it takes for a McD worker to answer the question, "Which toys do you have?". (As a Happy Meal toy collector, I've asked that plenty of times.)

It's bad enough when a customer comes to the head of the line and looks dumbstruck at the fast food menu. Now, you're asking them to do it a second time when you ask "Which toy doees your child want?"

Heaven forbid that the child is also in line -- because then the parent will ask the child which toy he or she wants. Yeah, that's a quick response!

Simply ask which TYPE of toy is wanted, such as car or doll, (or rocket) without the detail of exactly which model* is available today. Just as easy as asking girl or boy, and more useful.


Alternatively, you could remove the stick and tell the man whether the meal is for a boy or a girl. I'm sure you already know that and it shouldn't be too hard to just answer the question. Unless, of course, you are looking for reasons to get offended, which you obviously are.

(Yes, I said "the man". How sexist of me.)
 
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Aurendrosl wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
Aurendrosl wrote:
It's sexist that you're posting this in the Women and Gaming forum. I'm offended you didn't also post it in the Men and Gaming forum.

You mean, the rest of BGG?

You're sexist. It's sexist to assume that the rest of BGG is for men when it is not clearly labeled as such. I demand the OP post this thread in the "Men and Gaming" forum or else we have a double standard.


You honestly think that things are unmarked have no gender?

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/05/24/male-as-the-...

I'm pretty sure you haven't even thought about it.
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Daniel Corban
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No one should be buying happy meals in the first place!

At least just buy a regular burger and kids fries, then buy them a real toy from the store.
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ALREADY Amazing! Lissa
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tofarley wrote:
Edit: It's since been noted that this isn't even marketing, but a user review. I'm leaving it because it still addresses the OPs complaint.

I think I'm as sad that this bothers you as you are bothered by it.

It's not exactly sexism, is it? It's called marketing to a target audience. Fact: Boys like rockets. Are their girls who like rockets? Certainly, but why should a company who's trying to make money market to the smallest demographic? Know your audience. I don't see a lot of Barbie commercials aimed at little boys, and I don't see a lot of Hotwheels commercials aimed at little girls. We can pretend that differences don't exist between the sexes all we want, but it's a fact that men and women are different -- physically, mentally and emotionally different. That doesn't make one superior to the other, just different. When you imply that one is better than the other is when you cross over into the realm of sexism. If this ad review were to make a claim that little girls were too stupid understand how cool rockets were -- then I'd be right at your side.

Do I think its poor advertising? Yes. It's reminiscent of the very cheesy 1980's Matel merchandising... but it's not sexist.

Edit -- For reference, I've included some old advertising that I would completely agree is sexist:






I am now putting away my Battleship game!
 
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ALREADY Amazing! Lissa
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adorablerocket wrote:
I'm so confused.

When I read the quotes out of context I was irritated at the "marketing copy" not so much because it left out girls, but rather because of the weird "Mama" obsession.

Then I clicked the link.

This is not marketing, this is a personal review of the game.

So whatever beef we may have with the author of the review, I don't think it has anything to do with the game design or marketing of this product.



Yeah and I am a Girl and a Mamma and I agree with you...
 
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ALREADY Amazing! Lissa
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tofarley wrote:
Laughing Cow Cheese wrote:
Sorry, I should have made it clearer.

On the Marketing/production side, it's the company's choice of artwork.

On the reviewer side, it's the use of exclusionary language (and the "mama" meme)

and I'll add on the consumer side: why am I as a female gamer and (once a girl) lover of space expected to just accept this form of marketing and reviewing? (I don't support McDonalds selling "boy kids meals" and "girls kids meals" and all the nonsense with Barbie and Hot Wheels being gendered toys either.) But that's not the issue here. I'm a female gamer talking about games. Why would including a female image preclude marketing to males as the larger target demographic? And why not try to pick up girls as a market?





You're totally right. Every race should be included too, and let's not forget transgenders, they are people too. It's just not easy to target *everyone* so you have to target *someone*. It's unreasonable to expect every single race/nationality/creed/sex/sexual orientation to be included in every single thing that's said or done in the world. That said, I completely agree that things shouldn't be framed such that anyone should be *excluded* either. I think in this particular case you're just looking for something where there's nothing to be found. There are much better examples out there to make your case.



Once again I agree with "I think in this particular case you're just looking for something where there's nothing to be found"
 
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ALREADY Amazing! Lissa
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Sam and Max wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Also, it's much easier to train LCD McD waitstaff to ask "Is this for a boy or girl" than... well, if you know a better way for someone who either speaks English poorly or has it as a second language, tell McD Corp that.

How about, "Which toy does your child want?"


That won't work. If you ask, "Boy or girl", you're asking a boolean question which the answer knows. If you ask "Which toy" you're asking an open ended question, and the answerer doesn't have enough information to answer with. You don't want to know how long it takes for a McD worker to answer the question, "Which toys do you have?". (As a Happy Meal toy collector, I've asked that plenty of times.)

It's bad enough when a customer comes to the head of the line and looks dumbstruck at the fast food menu. Now, you're asking them to do it a second time when you ask "Which toy doees your child want?"

Heaven forbid that the child is also in line -- because then the parent will ask the child which toy he or she wants. Yeah, that's a quick response!


OMGosh.. really guys.. Happy Meal Toys???? who cares! I go and order a happy meal for myself and really doesnt bug me at all about what i want in the toy department, I switch back and forth depending on what the toy is or just dont care either way. I am more concern that they put ketchup on my burger and too much ice in my drink! I of course change that and ask no ketchup and no ice. shake
 
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