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Subject: Declaring Victory: All at once or one by one? rss

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James Keith
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I'm sure this must be glaringly obvious to most folk, but my group has had a hell of a time with this one. When you declare victory, show your hand, and start to name names, do you name all your pertinent team members at once, or one-by-one?

The way we've been playing has been all at once. The rules say, first, that after declaring and revealing yourself, "you must name all the members of your Secret Society who are holding the objects needed to win." This seems to make the game very hard, as you need to be absolutely sure that all the people you name have at least one of the objects (i.e., if Bill and Joe are on my team and I think they both have an object, but it turns out Bill has two and Joe has none, than I'm still wrong and we still lose). As far as I can tell, you can't simply say "My other two team mates are Bill and Joe and they both have the other two objects between them." Well, you could, but you'd still be technically wrong, which is enough to lose you the game.

But then not a few sentences later in the rules, it says "One by one, as you name them, the others players reveal all their cards." The thing I couldn't figure out was whether this was simply a way to increase suspense after you'd named everyone or because you could name them one at a time and stop naming them once you reached 3 objects. After reading this thread in the forums, it sounds like the latter is the case.

If so, that definitely changes the game, as you don't have to be absolutely sure that Sam has at least one of the objects when you're sure of your team mates and that you all have three between you (start by naming the person your most sure/know has at least one, and go from there as their objects are revealed).

How does everyone else do it?
 
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Pedro Pereira
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You don't have to know all your team members, only those that hold winning objects.

So in order to declare victory you have to name those that hold victory items and how many. In the German rules I think it might be a bit clearer.

It says there that in order to declare a victory a player must own at least one of the winning objects, then he/she declares that the brotherhood he/she belongs to has all the objects and names the team mates that hold the remaining items, THOSE players then, will have to show their hands in order to confirm.

So first you name the players, then those players show hands to confirm. But you do have to say how many items each one of them holds as you name them.

Hope this helped.
 
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James Keith
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Pedrator wrote:
But you do have to say how many items each one of them holds as you name them.


So, you also need to know how many objects each person has? And if you're wrong about that, you lose? That seems to go back to my first assertion, that there's little room for error.
 
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Pedro Pereira
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Checked again and no, you don't need to know how many objects your team mates have. so if it's two, you just need to know it's you and another player, but you don't have to know how many each player has.

At first glance this might seem irrelevant since there are 3 objects and if you have 1 and two more players have them too, it would be perfectly easy to know how many objects each player has.

Or if you have two objects, then another player would have one, etc.

It gets tricky though if the travel bags turn into winning objects, in that case it would be a bit more difficult to assert the correct answer...

So, you need to know who has, but you don't need to know how many they have, so the winning declaration should be something like:

"The brotherhood of true lies has all the winning objects and the holders are I and B and D"

Then, all the mentioned players should reveal their guild card as well as reveal their hands.
 
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James Keith
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That makes sense. Thanks!
 
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Henry Allen
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Pedrator wrote:
...

So, you need to know who has, but you don't need to know how many they have, so the winning declaration should be something like:

"The brotherhood of true lies has all the winning objects and the holders are I and B and D"

Then, all the mentioned players should reveal their guild card as well as reveal their hands.


Just to clarify ... are you intending to imply that you actually can't declare one at a time afer all? Or can the person making the declaration in this case pause before saying "and D" to confirm if they already have enough objects between him/her self and B?
 
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Henry Allen
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BTW, the publisher's Website has a pretty good FAQ that I think addresses most of the questions in this thread (except for if you can declare one at a time): http://www.ludocreatix.com/kutschfahrt/3faq_en.html
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Pedro Pereira
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No, you cannot declare one at a time. If you declare just one player besides yourself and the both of you do hold enough winning objects, you loose the game to the opposing team.

But!

As explained above, at some point there will be 4 winning objects in the game. You only have to be sure about as many as you need to win: 3.

So if you're playing say an 8 player game and all objects are in play, you might have a situation in which for example:

A holds 1 object
B holds 2
C holds 1
D holds none

If you (A) declare I and B together hold 3 winning objects, that's a win. You don't have to add C to declare victory.

If on the other hand you declare I and C hold the winning objects, you loose for you would be missing one object.

Hope this helps.
 
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James Keith
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KlydeFrog wrote:
BTW, the publisher's Website has a pretty good FAQ that I think addresses most of the questions in this thread (except for if you can declare one at a time): http://www.ludocreatix.com/kutschfahrt/3faq_en.html


Thanks for that, I'd gone to that page but failed to scroll down to the "Declaring Victory" sub-section. D'oh! blush
 
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David Ashleydale
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I hope we get clarification on this -- it's still unclear to me. The rules state, "Now you must name all the members of your Secret Society who are holding the objects needed to win. ... One by one, as you name them, the other players reveal all of their cards."

To me, this means that after I say someone's name, they show their cards before I say the next person's name. Otherwise, why include the phrase "one by one"? Why not just say, "Now you must name all the members of your Secret Society who are holding the objects needed to win. Those players reveal all of their cards."?

The "one by one" sounds like a way to give the announcer some wiggle room in his announcement. I know I have a Key, and I know who the other members of the Order are, and I know that we have them all, but I'm not sure of the exact distribution. So first I show mine, then I name another player who shows that she has the other two. We win, but in my mind I'm a little relieved because I wasn't quite sure which other Order member would have had the third.

Admittedly, this is a rare situation, and if I were in it, I would probably keep playing until I was more sure where the Keys were. But the phrase "one by one" leads me to believe it would be played out like this.
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Sebastian Neuhauss
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From the FAQ it is clear that you have to name a set of players holding all objects your team needs to win and you are not allowed to name players of your team not holding a relevent object.
In my version (German Adlung) there is nothing like "one by one" in the rules. It is like you wish to have it (it's the same in the German and English version): The player names the team members golding the relevant objects and the members show their luggage and identity. Not one by one, but first naming all and then showing their things.
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David Ashleydale
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Thanks, Sebastian. Could you give me a link to the FAQ you're talking about?
 
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Sebastian Neuhauss
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Hi David, no problem. Have a look at this website (it is in English):
http://www.ludocreatix.com/kutschfahrt/3faq_en.html
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David Ashleydale
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Thanks, Sebastian. I've seen that FAQ, but I didn't think it answered this particular question. There are several end-game situations in the FAQ, but they all talk about which side wins the game after all of the information is shown. It doesn't say whether or not the information was shown by the players all at once or "one by one" as it states to do in the English rules.

Although -- possibly -- the 2nd question in that area gives us a small clue that they were revealed all at once, because why would the game have continued after the proclaimer named someone that didn't have a Key?

Esther: I declare that my team wins and here is my Key.
[Esther reveals association card and Key]
Esther: Next, I proclaim that Sebastian is also on my team and he has at least one Key.
[Sebastian reveals that he is on the same team, but doesn't have a Key.]
Others: You lose!
Esther: Wait, but I also proclaim that David has at least one Key!
[David reveals that he is also on the same team and does in fact have 2 Keys!]
Esther: See! I named players on my team and my team does have enough Keys to win!
Others: Sorry, then you should have revealed David first. Because you did it in that order, you lose.

If this had been the situation, the question and answer would probably have been worded differently.

Also, if the game is originally in German and the German rules don't mention the "one by one" thing, then I guess we can call this a mistranslation.

Thanks,
David
 
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Sebastian Neuhauss
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Well, I don't know other rule books, but mine didn't mention tis "one by one" - neigher in German nore in English. Both rules are included. Maybe tey changet it because of misinterpretation. This game has a mystery theme, "one by one" should have been to raise the tention in the last round, but it is only used AFTER the necessary players are named.
The task in this game is to find your fellows and control the ownership of special things. A victory by luck (to name a person who owns two of the special items, but you have guessed he owns only one BEFORE you name another person who owns none of the items, but you have guessed he owns at least one) in my opinion doesn't fit in this game.
Alltogether I can't proof my interpretation to be the right one, but it shouls lead in the right direction.
 
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