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Elder Sign» Forums » Rules

Subject: Vincent Lee vs. Ithaqua rss

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Maybe I'm missing a rules point somewhere but it appears that Vincent Lee solo vs. Ithaqua is an auto-win.

Lee's power is that he can give a Stamina point to himself or another investigator on each of his turns. Ithaqua's attack is 2 Stamina damage at Midnight on the clock. Head to head, Lee can give himself 4 points of Stamina for every turn of the clock while taking only 2 points of damage each midnight. Am I missing something? If not, any suggested fixes? I suppose you can just avoid playing the two together....

Brian
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Jani Pietikäinen
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I haven't played the game yet, but it seems to me that even if Ithaqua isn't the GOO, the special ability of the Doctor (and the Psychiatrist) seem a bit overpowering in a game with just one or two investigators.
In Elder Sign, the investigators don't seem to be subjected to as much damage as they are in Arkham Horror.

I think Lee's special ability would suit the game better, if it could be used only once a day. Maybe after each Mythos Card, as the investigators apparently go to take some rest for the hours 00-12.
 
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David Lawhun
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Or you could just disable investigator abilities once the final battle starts. Thematically, its not like he would have time to stop and give himself or anyone else medical treatment while he was in the middle of a last ditch desperate struggle with an ancient one.
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Kenny Coleman
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I'd be interested in an official ruling.
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Dane Barrett
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Geez FFG. Its like the Arkham Horror healing stone all over again.

I can't believe a fairly simple dice game is going to end up with a (probably) 20 page FAQ (at this rate).
 
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Jani Pietikäinen
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spaminator wrote:
Or you could just disable investigator abilities once the final battle starts. Thematically, its not like he would have time to stop and give himself or anyone else medical treatment while he was in the middle of a last ditch desperate struggle with an ancient one.


Yep, that would probably work too, especially if there is at least, say, four investigators in play.
But with one or two investigators, doesn't Lee's ability seem much too powerful even before the final battle? Judging be the cards I've seen and the rules, investigators seldom take a lot of damage during one individual adventure (failing R'lyeh does two damage, maybe three if there was a monster that you took out...). Now this should be about the worst case scenario where an investigator might find themselves in - and Vincent can heal it in no time if there is only a couple of investigators to share turns with him.

Also, disabling investigator abilities for the final battle would block out other really nice, yet non-overpowering, abilities, like the Photographer's ability to increase invenstigation, or Student's(?) ability to complete multiple tasks in one roll (do multiple hits in one attack)
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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I still don't have the game yet, but as I understand it, the same problem exists with Carolyn Fern and Hastur, as colorfully described here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...

Nagred from FFG forum wrote:
"In this corner, weighing in at a svelte 3,765 pounds, from Another Dimension, the King in Yellow - it's Hastur the Ancient One! And in this corner, weighing 118 pounds, from Arkham, Massachusetts, psychologist Carolyn Fern! It's a fight to the finish, and only one of them will come out alive!"

Oh, forget the hype. Carolyn wins, every time.


I think the suggestion to make her ability (and Vincent Lee's) work once per day (meaning every four turns of the clock) is a good one.

Quote:
I can't believe a fairly simple dice game is going to end up with a (probably) 20 page FAQ (at this rate).


I agree. The game is only just out now... most people don't even have it yet that are likely to be getting it... and several people have already noticed this stuff. How does this not come up and get fixed during playtesting?? shake
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Kevin Duffy
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It is once every turn...once every full turn of the clock...
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Seven NIghts
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Because they might have always playtested with 4 people, thinking that was "the right number."

 
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Gareth Roberts
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This is karma for how rubbish he was in Arkham Horror, Vincent Lee is all like 'they question my skill as a doctor... I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!' (no but it does sound pretty broken though)
 
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Jake Waltier
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Yeah, this does sound pretty awful. Maybe the game was just not playtested with only one character. Perhaps with 2 or 3 characters (still single player) it would work out fine.
 
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Some guy at the FFG website forums wrote:
Some of those abilities were meant to function only once per day like Mandy Thompson. By the book, Mandy can use her special abilities each turn, which is very powerful. Those healing powers should be, "Once per day, on your turn...". The play testing was obviously done with mostly 4 or more people because when you only have 1 or 2 players the game plays differently and is easier because of the "At Midnight..." mechanic.


The quote above is from a discussion over at the FFG forums on this very same topic. Seems like a good and solid fix... "Once per day, on your turn..."

Brian
 
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Jon Hall
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Perhaps FFG didn´t playtest with 1 (to 3) investigators to see how certain skills or attributes would work.

from page 5:
Quote:
Elder Sign is played over a number of turns, starting with
the first player and continuing clockwise around the table.
The player who is currently taking his turn is referred to as
the active player.


Continuing on page 5:
Quote:
During each player’s turn he performs the
following steps:
1. Move: The active player moves his Investigator marker to
either an Adventure card or the Entrance reference sheet.
2. Either Resolve an Adventure or Wait at the Entrance:
The active player either rolls dice to complete the tasks on the
Adventure card he is on or, if he is instead on the Entrance
reference sheet, performs one of the activities listed on the sheet.
3. Advance the Clock: The active player moves the clock hand
on the Clock and each time the Clock returns to midnight, he
draws and resolves a Mythos card.


In a turn, you move (or not), you act (or wait) and move the clock. By this definition, in a single investigator game, the lone investigator will always be the active player in all "turns."

"Once per turn" in a one-investigator game means 4 times (the midnight turn, the 3, the 6 and the 9) before the next midnight. It is really simple and I'm confounded by why this is so difficult for people to understand. That is the literal reading of the rules.

So, clarification isn't necessary. An adjustment - perhaps.But, I think it's pretty clear: probably little playtesting with one investigator. The rules are straight forward.
 
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