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Subject: Is it just me, or do Citadel paints suck the big one? rss

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Derek Anderson
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What is the deal with GW paints not lasting?

I used to heavily be into painting, I have about 100 or so pots of GW paints and about 150 of the Vallejo paints.

Three years ago I moved across country and packed up my paints and supplies. This past week I finally was able to unpack them.

95%+ of the GW paints are DRIED OUT... Seriously, some are so dry they are thicker than peanut butter, others look like they could be salvaged, but it probably isn't worth my time.

The Vallejo paints - every one of them are perfect!!!!!

It really frustrates me that so many of the GW paints are just completely useless now and have to be thrown out. What is the reasoning behind this? They all were packed in the same box, so it wasn't an issue of the box of GW paints being in a bad climate or anything.

D.
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I've been painting miniatures for about 30 years now and used MANY different companies' paints, and I would have to agree with you on this. I've had several of GW's different bottle styles and all of them dried up faster than other brands, (Reaper paints coming in at a close second for this problem and paint separation).

I will admit their colors are nice, but they do not last nearly as long as other brands like Vallejo or Privateer's paints. One would think that they would correct this problem, but with so many of their fans fawning over everything with the brand name on it, I doubt they hear a whole lot of this... or care.
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Derek Anderson
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I am glad I am not the only one, thanks for the reply!

I am very happy with how wll the Vallejo paints have held up... despite liking some GW colors quite a bit, I highly doubt I will buy any more of their paints...

I have never used Reaper paints, or Privateer... but I'll check out Privateer the next time I am in the gaming store, thanks!
 
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omnicrondelicious
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I have Citadel paints from back when Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader was first in print, and they are still good. I have Citadel paints from 4 years ago, dried as a brick. Go figure.

That said, they are good paints. You just need to use 'em up faster! I don't, but once or twice a year I remember to take them all out, add a little water, and some retarder. I use a $2 motorized milk frother to mix. Ever since I started doing that, I haven't lost much paint to drying.

.o.
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Bossko B.
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I think it depends on the individual pot. I've had some, not just GW, dry up quickly. I also have some GW pots over 10 years old which are still fine.

Personally I prefer the GW paints, I feel their bases/paints/washes all go together very nicely. Shame their pots are a bif naff.
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Matt Thrower
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As a point of interest, I have some GW paints from back when they used to sell the old box sets (Citadel Colour, Monster Colour etc etc) - when GW was a proper games company. They're about 20 years old and nearly all of them are still usable. Most of my more recent boltgun pots are totally dry.

(Vallejo paints keep well and have a good range of colours, but personally I found their lighter shades didn't cover brilliantly)
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Roger Sjögren
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I really dislike GWs paints. I pay more and get a lot less paint than from other brands.
And when I need them they have dried out.

However the GW paints I bought in the early 90s is still still fine and I use them from time to time while they last.
Nowdays I have mostly replaced most of it with Reaper paints instead. Triad system, metal skull and excellent selection and consistancy.

If you want better paints cheaper and that lasts go out and buy Reaper Master series or Vallejo.

The old good GW paints are also still availible from Coat D'Arms, they have just changed the names on some of the bottles.http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=hob-cd...

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Jenny Nguyen
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I recently found a stash of my old GW paints circa 2003 as well as GW paints from the 90s. The ones from the 90s, whilst un-usable, were still somewhat moist to the touch whilst the ones from 2005 were all totally dry!

I'm fairly certain that the pot design has something to do with this (air getting in), but I'm also willing to bet that they've changed the formula of their paints. The liquid dries out incredibly quickly!

I would never go back to GW paints. Their paints are absolute garbage with no coverage whatsoever. I'm not getting conned into buying foundation paints.

I'm a huge fan of P3 paints (from Privateer Press) as well as both Vallejo Game Colour and Vallejo Model Colour. Reaper are fantastic also, primarily because their paints are offered in triads to make shading and highlighting a cinch.

P3 paints are incredibly opaque. White goes over black no problems, even traditionally thin colours such as yellow and orange have good coverage. Since P3, I haven't touched Vallejo. But this is mainly because I am no longer trying to paint at a display-level. I still ink, shade and highlight but my goal is to get my armies onto the table with above average paint jobs in a quicker time and I've found that the opacity has improved that turn around.
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Marius Roth
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Ia also have several different pots of GW paint.

The ioldest ones are the hexagonal tall tubes with the white folding lid. Some of these colors are as old as 15 years and still pretty usable.

Then came a black opening lid and these colors dried up pretty fast.

Now the have the smaller boxes with the screwing lid and after 2-3 weeks they are nearly not usable anymore. It's good that I stay away from GW proucts lately, but if I should need colors for miniature painting. I will surely avoid GW paints.
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The Harnish
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I hate GW paints: I greatly prefer Vallejo (both Game and Model colours) and P3 paints (though the lids on the pots suck).
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David Reay
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If you look after the paint pot, clean the lid, and make sure that they are properly shut, they last a very long time.

I always store mine upside down, which also helps, and shows up any leaks very quickly!

I am still using some of the old hexagonal pots from 15 years ago! Obviously only for colours I do not use much!
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Kelly Page
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I just popped open a pot of Warlock Purple that I got in 1994. Still good. Of course, I have some that are less than 5 years old that are bone dry.
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Robert Loblah
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I also have GW paint from the early 90s; still good. Newer GW paints? Dry in no time. I can't imagine the pretzel I would have to contort my thinking into in order to believe that this isn't by design.
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Devon Harmon
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Since making that video several years ago, I switched over to using the P3 paints. I love them. THe only GW products I use are their foundation paints and their washes. I just picked up my first Vallejo paint last week, as my tentacle pink dried out, and Vallejo seems to be the only one making a deeper pink color. We'll see how it goes.

Edit: In the video I mention that Cote d'Arms made the GW paints. This is incorrect. They are manufactured by HMG. I have a suspicion that HMG also makes the P3 line of paints, but I haven't confirmed this.
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Roger Sjögren
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Good video, however strange that the first version GW paints were missing from his summary, the really old round bottles that is.
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Devon Harmon
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Svarthand wrote:
Good video, however strange that the first version GW paints were missing from his summary, the really old round bottles that is.


The old round bottles are before my time. I didn't know about them until after I made this video. Aren't the old round bottles the same paint formula as the early hex bottles with the flip top lid (just packaged differently)?
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Roger Sjögren
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Devon Harmon wrote:
Aren't the old round bottles the same paint formula as the early hex bottles with the flip top lid (just packaged differently)?

Yes, same formula but different bottles. Similarly to the difference with the newer screw cap bottles and flip top bottles that you mentioned.
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Robert Loblah
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Great video. I didn't know that Cotes D'Arms had made GW paints, and more importantly, that they were still available. Thanks!
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Derek Anderson
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Since my post yesterday, I have now had a chance to go through every paint pot one by one (sorting and organizing)...

Out of over 100 pots of GW paints, only a few of them were worth saving, and oddly enough, they were the older bottles of 10+ years ago. I even had some pots that were brand new when I packed them up, and they were completely dry!!!!

All of my Vallejo Game paints were perfect (I think they are called "game" they are the brighter and richer colors that work well for Warhammer and 40k)... Also all of the Vallejo Model ones were perfect too, although I did notice that many of them had split up so there was a white liquid that was separated from the pigment (white liquid on top of the bottle, the pigment settled on the bottom). It just took a good shaking of 20 seconds or so to get them back to life, they were NOT dried up at all, just separated. I have no idea why the model paints did this but not the game?

So Vallejo had a 100% survival rate after 3 years in storage.
Games Workshop was less than 5%, and the survivors were the older versions.

NOTE: ALL of the GW inks were just fine. I have no way of knowing if any of them evaporated or not, but as far as being usable, they were all ok.

D.

Edit: Clarified some info in paragraph 3.
 
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Jenny Nguyen
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Model colour and Game colour use different formulas. Game colour is much more watery, Model is much thicker. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this but both have their uses depending on preferred painting style.

Maybe because Game colour is aimed at fantasy painters who like to blend when painting whereas Model is generally aimed at 15mm wargamers who don't need to blend because the figures are much smaller. Shrug!
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Derek Anderson
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smittenkitten wrote:
Model colour and Game colour use different formulas. Game colour is much more watery, Model is much thicker. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this but both have their uses depending on preferred painting style.

Maybe because Game colour is aimed at fantasy painters who like to blend when painting whereas Model is generally aimed at 15mm wargamers who don't need to blend because the figures are much smaller. Shrug!


Thanks Jenny, that makes sense then as to why the model colors had separated and had to be re-shook, a different formula! I don't use them anywhere near as much as the Game color ones, but the model ones do have some really nice colors.

D.
 
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Jay Adan
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Vallejo paint bottles force you to use a palette and keep excess air from getting to the paints themselves. Most people who use citadel paints tend to work directly from the bottle (I am guilty of this myself) and thus expose the paints to an excess of air - thus contributing to the much shorter shelf-life of the paint. Add to that the possibility of dried paint building up around the lid (keep the lid from giving a good seal) and you have paints that are likely to dry out.

I used to transfer all of my Citadel paints into after market dropper bottles. They never dried out. Not once. I would run out of the paint, refill the bottle, and be on my way again. I still have a couple of those bottles around and they still work fine.
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Richard Piesse
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a games retailer once informed me that a GW sales rep had attempted to sell them on the paints on the promise that they dried out quickly, and customers would keep having to buy them. go GW ethical comittee.
 
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Derek Anderson
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JayAdan wrote:
Vallejo paint bottles force you to use a palette and keep excess air from getting to the paints themselves. Most people who use citadel paints tend to work directly from the bottle (I am guilty of this myself) and thus expose the paints to an excess of air - thus contributing to the much shorter shelf-life of the paint. Add to that the possibility of dried paint building up around the lid (keep the lid from giving a good seal) and you have paints that are likely to dry out.

I used to transfer all of my Citadel paints into after market dropper bottles. They never dried out. Not once. I would run out of the paint, refill the bottle, and be on my way again. I still have a couple of those bottles around and they still work fine.


Hi Jay,

That is a very good theory, and I am sure it does play a factor, but I have several Citadel pots that have never been opened, and they are dry and hard as a rock... so while things like painting from the pot (which I am guilty of) and dry paint causing the pot to not close tightly could (and probably is) a contributing factor - it doesn't explain why several paints are just dry when you open them for the first time.

D.
 
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Robert Loblah
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I'm with Deroan; it happens to unopened paints. Oh, and I hardly think it's an accident.
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