Sakjuif dagnais
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Here is the impasse we came to last night while playing with the count:

Blue finishes his own road which already had a meeple on a previous piece, it is uncontested at completion.

the turns pass around the table for players to add their meeples from the city of carc to the feature being scored. Red moves 1 meeple from the road quarter to the road.

Do red and blue rejoice together each having 1 meeple? or is it considered that blue gave red points so can earn none?

the argument centred around the rule which denies you points for giving another points.

Please comment on this as well:

"When the placing player places a tile that gives at least one opponnent at least one point, the placing player scores nothing."

I read it as: if you place the tile and that causes the enemy to score you get nothing but if you place a tile that does not cause them to score but they do score after due to meeple deployment that is a seperate action so you are still eligible for points.

EDIT pics on my profile...
 
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Josh Gaudreau
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My understanding is this:

The red and blue players will each score the points as they have an equal amount of meeples on the feature.

The 2nd question is a separate issue if I understand what you're asking, and has to do with putting meeples into Carcassonne City. In this case, if you lay a tile that finishes another players feature causing them to score, but you yourself gain no points (naturally) by doing so, then you are allowed to put a meeple in the city. You cannot choose to not get points at any time in the game.

For example: red is working on a monastary. Blue puts down the final piece to complete the monastary, but since it doesn't complete any of blue's features, he gains no points. Red gains 12 points as per the rules. In this case, since blue laid the tile that scores red points, blue may put a meeple in C. City.

Hope that helps!
 
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Sakjuif dagnais
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Tyvm for quick reply!

for the second question (the example you used) we aren't even getting that far...

Our debate was blue completes his own road, and has majority with one, before he takes the points red adds his meeple from the city so then they both have one.

My friends say that when red adds his meeple from carc, to the road being scored, that counts as blue giving red points so blue gets nothing for completing his own road.

After a 45 minute argument we gave up and played a game with the river as a started instead
 
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Marty Latremulecity
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I few clarification.

1. When playing with the count. Sakjuif is suggesting that it is possible for the player completing the feature to receive points if the rejoicing happens after the maaple(s) has/have been deployed from the city.

From my understanding, this is the sequence of event according to sakjuif:

1. A tile is placed on the board that completes a feature. The feature is presently occupied by one follower owned by the player completing the feature.

2.Player scores the feature and collects x point for completion.

3. We then go around the table and every player with a meeple in the city has the chance to place one or more meeples on the completed feature.

4. Should one decide to place a meeple in the completed feature, both players would rejoice and get points. The person placing the tile as well as the person deploying a meeple.

The end result in this situation. Both player get x amount of points.

I disagree with the sequences of events as I believe that you cannot score the feature until each player has had the chance to deploy a meeple from the city.

By deploying a meeple from the city you create a 1v1 situation on the feature. At this point, majority would be determines,and it would be determined that the tile placing player has given the meeple deploying player points thus making him unable to collect any points. In other words, by deploying the meeple from the city to the completed feature, you deny the tile placing player from scoring points for himself.

The end result would be X points for the player who deployed a maaple from the city. 0 point for the tile placing player (he would have the opportunity to place a follower in the city and move the count should he choose to do so.)



 
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Sakjuif dagnais
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Tremule wrote:
I few clarification.

1. When playing with the count. Sakjuif is suggesting that it is possible for the player completing the feature to receive points if the rejoicing happens after the maaple(s) has/have been deployed from the city.

From my understanding, this is the sequence of event according to sakjuif:

1. A tile is placed on the board that completes a feature. The feature is presently occupied by one follower owned by the player completing the feature.

2.Player scores the feature and collects x point for completion.

3. We then go around the table and every player with a meeple in the city has the chance to place one or more meeples on the completed feature.

4. Should one decide to place a meeple in the completed feature, both players would rejoice and get points. The person placing the tile as well as the person deploying a meeple.

The end result in this situation. Both player get x amount of points.

I disagree with the sequences of events as I believe that you cannot score the feature until each player has had the chance to deploy a meeple from the city.

By deploying a meeple from the city you create a 1v1 situation on the feature. At this point, majority would be determines,and it would be determined that the tile placing player has given the meeple deploying player points thus making him unable to collect any points.

The end result would be X points for the player who deployed a maaple from the city. 0 point for the tile placing player (he would have the opportunity to place a follower in the city and move the count should he choose to do so.)


That is not what I am saying, this is:

1. A tile is placed on the board that completes a feature. The feature is presently occupied by one follower owned by the player placing the tile.

2. players turn is done and it is time to score the feature.

3.Before scoring, we go around the table and every player with a meeple in the city has the chance to place one or more meeples on the completed feature.

4. Should one decide to place a meeple in the completed feature, both players would rejoice and get points. The person placing the tile as well as the person deploying a meeple.

 
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Marty Latremulecity
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Great! lets look closely at your 4th point

«4. Should one decide to place a meeple in the completed feature, both players would rejoice and get points. The person placing the tile as well as the person deploying a meeple»

The rules of the count expansion state that you deny yourself of any points when you give points to an other player. If the end result after determining majority is that both players tie for the points, you are giving that player points thus denying you from scoring any points.

I do not believe that the tile placing player can rejoice(with the other) under any circumstance when playing the count expansion.



 
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Sakjuif dagnais
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the rules do not state that you deny yourself any points when you give points to any player

They state that when the placing player places a tile which gives at least one opponent at least one point, he gets no points.

in our debate, the placing player does not cause at least one opponent to score at least one point. the other player parachutes in a meeple as scoring is being determined. it is not the tile placement that generates the opponent scoring it is the oppenent generating his own scoring


 
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Jerome Chan
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sakjuif wrote:
Tyvm for quick reply!

for the second question (the example you used) we aren't even getting that far...

Our debate was blue completes his own road, and has majority with one, before he takes the points red adds his meeple from the city so then they both have one.

My friends say that when red adds his meeple from carc, to the road being scored, that counts as blue giving red points so blue gets nothing for completing his own road.

After a 45 minute argument we gave up and played a game with the river as a started instead


That rule only applies to players placing a meeple in Carcassonne City?
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Daniel Johns
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sakjuif wrote:
the rules do not state that you deny yourself any points when you give points to any player

They state that when the placing player places a tile which gives at least one opponent at least one point, he gets no points.

in our debate, the placing player does not cause at least one opponent to score at least one point. the other player parachutes in a meeple as scoring is being determined. it is not the tile placement that generates the opponent scoring it is the oppenent generating his own scoring


That is premised on a misreading of the rules.

In your initial post, you quoted the rules as saying:
Quote:
When the placing player places a tile that gives at least one opponnent at least one point, the placing player scores nothing.

The rules actually do not say that. A copy of the rules is available for download here on BGG at http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/8736/the-count-of-carcasso.... The closest thing I can find to what you quoted is the rule on when a meeple may be placed in the City of Carcassonne:
Quote:
When a player places a tile that causes at least one of his opponents to score at least 1 point while the placing player scores nothing, the placing player, at the end of his turn, may place one follower from his supply on a city quarter of his choice.

You seem to have missed the word "while" (or else there's a bad translation somewhere).

The Count of Carcassonne rules do not say that the placing player can't score when somebody else scores as well, whether for the same feature or a different one. In the simple case where two players each already have one meeple on a road, and one of those two players places a tile so as to complete the road, and nobody moves a follower from the City, they both score the road; nothing in the Count rules changes that.

There is still the question of how the rules on who or what "causes" a player to score or "gives" points to a player should be interpreted if a player other than the placing player uses the City to gain an outright majority. If Red has the only meeple on a road, and Red places the tile that completes the road, and Blue moves not one but two meeples from the City, thereby outnumbering Red and becoming the only player to score the road, does Red have the option of placing a meeple on the City? I say yes, since his tile placement didn't score for him and did score for someone else.
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Marty Latremulecity
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Thanks for the reply Daniel Johns.

But that's not quite the answer we're looking for.

What were are trying to figure out is the total point distribution at the end of the turn.

So here is the scenario once again in the correct sequence

1. red completes a road, The road had one red meeple on it.

2. We go around the table to give each player a chance to play a meeple from Carc city to the newly completed road.

3.Blue decides to place 1 meeple. (there is now 1 red and 1 blue meeple on the completed road.

4. We determine Majority and count score

Does red get any points ?
Does red have the option of placing a meeple into Carc city ?
Does blue get any points ?



 
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Tremule wrote:
Does red get any points ?
Does red have the option of placing a meeple into Carc city ?
Does blue get any points ?

Yes.
Yes. No.
Yes.

Before scoring a feature, starting with the player to the current player’s left, each player has one opportunity to transfer any number of his followers from the appropriate quarter of Carcassonne City, unoccupied by the count, to the feature to be scored.

EDIT: Joshx's reply below is correct. I misread the question (as "... from Carc city".)

 
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sakjuif wrote:
They state that when the placing player places a tile which gives at least one opponent at least one point, he gets no points.

No.

The closest (and not very close) thing in the rules is that if, as the result of the player’s tile placement, the aggregate of scored features result in points being awarded only to other players, he may put one follower in any quarter of Carcassonne City. When he places a follower in this way, he may then move the count to any quarter.

 
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Josh Gaudreau
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Tremule wrote:


Does red get any points ?
Does red have the option of placing a meeple into Carc city ?
Does blue get any points ?


Yes.
No.
Yes. Red and blue will each get the full points for the completed road.
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Marty Latremulecity
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Aldaron wrote:
Tremule wrote:
Does red get any points ?
Does red have the option of placing a meeple into Carc city ?
Does blue get any points ?

Yes.
Yes. No.
Yes.

Before scoring a feature, starting with the player to the current player’s left, each player has one opportunity to transfer any number of his followers from the appropriate quarter of Carcassonne City, unoccupied by the count, to the feature to be scored.

EDIT: Joshx's reply below is correct. I misread the question (as "... from Carc city".)



So it is possible to give point to somebody and receive point in the same turn for the same feature when playing with the count.

Interesting.

Furthermore, why wouldn't red be able to place a meeple in Carc city if he is giving points to the blue player?
 
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Tremule wrote:
Furthermore, why wouldn't red be able to place a meeple in Carc city if he is giving points to the blue player?

Because red scored points as well.
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