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Subject: Rock 'n Roll Wargame: The Hidden Coolness of City Fight rss

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Chris Pramas
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usrlocal wrote:
The remaining NATO leader counter names are:

Grimm, Gerber, Holmstrom, Schmidt, Pittman, Pursey, Fiddler, Erlanger, Robinson, Stuart, and Hahn. I can't make any rock connections with these names


Gerber was a well-known scenester in LA.

http://www.alicebag.com/gerberinterview.html

Pittman could be Ed Pittman, who was the first singer in Toxic Reasons. He only sang on their first album, Independence, which is awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_Reasons

Erlanger is likely Louis X. Erlanger from Mink DeVille, who were on the scene in the early CBGB's days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mink_DeVille

Stuart could be Ian Stuart, leader of Skrewdriver. They became notorious as the premier Nazi skinhead band, but when Donny was designing this game that had not happened yet and Skrewdriver was just another band on the British punk scene.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stuart_Donaldson

Smith could be Patti or Sonic as mention but may also refer to T.V. Smith of The Adverts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._V._Smith

Chris Pramas
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Sam I Am
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Great thread! I fear the going price for "City fight" is going to go through the roof once all the aging punk-rocking wargamers catch on.

Looking through the names, thought of this:

Plt leader Hahn: could it be Ron Hahn, member of Dada-inspired new york art/political group "Black mask", which later evolved into "Up against the wall motherf%@%rs"? (This group, fronted by Ben Morea, was the inspiration for a wargame about the Columbia riots published by SPI)

They even managed to fit a "platoon leader Bakunin" in there. He was definitively the punk rocker of the First International!
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Chris Pramas
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Hahn stumped me but after a little research I think it may refer to Dave Hahn AKA Dave ID. He was the drummer for The Mad and sometime manager of the Bad Brains.

http://www.beastiemania.com/whois/hahn_dave/

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Jeremy Fridy
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In the computer game Close Combat, I once saw an American tank that was crewed by Gates, Wozniak, and Jobs.
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Leo Zappa
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This is the best thread I've ever read in this subdomain. Maybe on the entire site. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In celebration, one of my favorite songs from one of my favorite bands, and an appropriate one at that... (don't mind the ad at the start - the video is worth it)

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Andy Beaton
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desertfox2004 wrote:
This is the best thread I've ever read in this subdomain. Maybe on the entire site. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In celebration, one of my favorite songs from one of my favorite bands, and an appropriate one at that... (don't mind the ad at the start - the video is worth it)


Agreed - punk rock, wargames, and a forum full of punk rock wargamers! This is amazing!

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Magister Ludi
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gap10 wrote:
Well, that shoots down my theory that it was a playtest group. Must have been one or more of the designers/developers. Rock on! cool


I'd hazard a guess it was Donaldson...you should check out his story on Wikipedia..not what you'd expect of a wargame designer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donny_the_punk

Great game BTW, one of my all time faves....
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Sam I Am
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aiabx wrote:

Agreed - punk rock, wargames, and a forum full of punk rock wargamers! This is amazing!

thumbsup

Now who's gonna come up with the mosh pit/pogo variant for close combat in City Fight?
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This thread wins BGG. It would have been awesome enough with just the original post, but Chris´ backstory and all the closet punks chiming in propel this into the stratosphere.

Makes me really look forward to earning my 2012 supporter badge.
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Enrico Viglino
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usrlocal wrote:

 


Stuart could refer to Ian Stuart Donaldson, lead singer of the UK band Skrewdriver.



It may also refer to Stuart Deutsch, who played drums for The Plasmatics between 1978-1980:





I'm more inclined to the former, as the choice seems odd to
move from last names only to a first name. I would imagine
NOT wanting a Donaldson counter might trump that however.
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Chris Pramas
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aiabx wrote:
Agreed - punk rock, wargames, and a forum full of punk rock wargamers! This is amazing!


I got to say, I'm happy to see that there are other folks who are both punks and wargamers. There aren't many of us that are interested in both the Blitzkrieg and Blitzkrieg Bop.

Another unlikely punk/wargamer connection is Chris Bauermeister, the bass player for Jawbreaker. Those guys went to NYU the same time as me, and Chris lived in my dorm. I well remember the night he got drunk and blasted Faith's "Subject to Change" so loud you could hear it up and down the hallways.

Chris has this distinctive tattoo on his arm. Five or six years ago I was at this local historical miniatures convention to play some games. As I'm walking around looking at the tables, I see a guy who looks different than the typical old white grognard. Then I saw the tattoo and realized it was Chris. I had not seen him since Jawbreaker's last show at ABC No Rio in the early 90s. Turns out he's big into historical miniatures games and now I see him once or twice a year at cons and game days. Wargaming punks for the win!

Chris Pramas
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fightcitymayor
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and 2 thumbs up for Samiam!


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Enrico Viglino
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Balkowski went on to making some of my favorite designs
over at VG too - including The Korean War
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Charles Vasey
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Mallet wrote:
What a great story !

I wonder how may games have stories like that one ?

This could be the start of a geeklist ?

Can't get geekier then this !

EDIT: just read the story of "Donny The Punk" : THAT story is not so great ... more tragic really, but illustrates very well the contradictions of the so-called "advanced" societies we live in ...


Extremely tragic, Steve sent me a tape of punk music just before going inside for the Veterans Hospital thing. Sadly it mangled itself a while later.
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J Macc
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This is one of the best threads ever!
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Richard Hecker
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Charles Vasey wrote:
Extremely tragic, Steve sent me a tape of punk music just before going inside for the Veterans Hospital thing. Sadly it mangled itself a while later.


Not only is becoming one of the great threads, it is becoming one of the most unlikely. Whodathunk the number of gamers are somehow linked to late 70s not-at-all-radio-friendly music.

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Steve Arthur
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enlightenedknave wrote:
This is one of the best threads ever!


Any thread that invokes the name of 'Handsome' Dick Manitoba has GOT to be good...



EDIT: Manitoba one of what I like to call the 'Three Big Dicks' of rock...

1.'Handsome' Dick Manitoba...larger than life and hugely talented frontman of the Dictators we already know about...

2.Magic Dick...sublimly skilled harmonica player of the J.Geils Band..

...and...

3.Dick Dale...fabulous exponent of the electrified and sped up Lebanese Folk Music derivative known to his millions of fans as Surfin' Guitar...
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Sam I Am
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For a bit of background on the origins of "Up against the wall", from the Wikipedia page:

Quote:
The phrase was taken from the poem, "Black People!" by Amiri Baraka (LeRoi Jones): "The magic words are: Up against the wall, mother f@#$r, this is a stick up!" One of the first appearances of the phrase "Up against the wall Motherfuckers!" as a revolutionary slogan was in April 1968, on a famous piece of graffiti found scrawled in the mathematics department (the building they helped occupy), following the Columbia University protests of 1968.


Ben Morea, the most prominent member is also known for his friendship with Valerie Solanas. It was allegedly from him that she got the gun used against Andy Warhol.

Another interesting tidbit is the fact that the British branch of the Situationist International (Timothy Clark, Christopher Gray, Donald Nicholson-Smith & Charles Radcliffe) were eventually excluded because of their ties to Black Mask. Guy Debord didn't like them very much.

It might be a stretch in this thread, but Greil Marcus' excellent book "Lipstick Traces" traces a lineage from Dada, to the Situationist International to punk.

"never work"!
"Under the cobblestones, the beach"!!
"Jouir sans entraves, vivre sans temps morts"
Those are punk words indeed.
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Magister Ludi
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calandale wrote:
Balkowski went on to making some of my favorite designs
over at VG too - including The Korean War


I've read somewhere that he's into Bluegrass, so somebody will have to check his games for sublimal dueling banjo references.
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Charles Vasey
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They're finger pickin' good.
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ian morris
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There's some bostin' songs on that album. I gotta go play me some Ramones ! Gabba Gabba Hey...

cool


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Roger Hobden
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usrlocal wrote:
For those of you who are into the music side of this thread (or who are interested in knowing what all the fuss is about), I *highly recommend* the 4 CD compilation "No Thanks!: The 70s Punk Rebellion" from Rhino Records.



Although some of the song choices are opening to quibbling, overall this is an AWESOME snapshot of the 'golden era' of punk rock, with great coverage of the early NYC punk scene, among others.

Disc one
"Blitzkrieg Bop" - Ramones
"White Riot" - The Clash
"Heart Of The City" - Nick Lowe
"Boredom" - Buzzcocks featuring Howard Devoto
"(I'm) Stranded" - The Saints
"Neat Neat Neat" - The Damned
"In The City" - The Jam
"Final Solution" - Pere Ubu
"Roadrunner" - The Modern Lovers
"Little Johnny Jewel" - Television
"One Chord Wonders" - The Adverts
"Born To Lose" - The Heartbreakers
"Search and Destroy" - Iggy & The Stooges
"Let Me Dream If I Want To (Amphetamine Blues)" - Mink DeVille
"Oh Bondage Up Yours!" - X-Ray Spex
"1 2 X U" - Wire
"Blank Generation" - Richard Hell & The Voidoids
"(Get A) Grip (On Yourself)" - The Stranglers
"Cherry Bomb" - The Runaways
"Personality Crisis" - New York Dolls
"Teenage Depression" - Eddie and the Hot Rods
"Two Tub Man" - The Dictators
"Hey Joe (Version)" - Patti Smith
"Your Generation" - Generation X

Disc two
"Lust For Life" - Iggy Pop
"Gary Gilmore's Eyes" - The Adverts
"Sat'day Night In The City Of The Dead" - Ultravox
"What Do I Get?" - Buzzcocks
"X Offender" - Blondie
"Lookin' After No. 1" - The Boomtown Rats
"Don't Dictate" - Penetration
"Bingo Master's Breakout" - The Fall
"Free Money" - Patti Smith
"The Modern World" - The Jam
"Chinese Rocks" - The Heartbreakers
"New Rose" - The Damned
"Ambition" - Subway Sect
"See No Evil" - Television
"Suspect Device" - Stiff Little Fingers
"Mannequin" - Wire
"Baby Baby" - The Vibrators
"Love Comes In Spurts" - Richard Hell & The Voidoids
"First Time" - The Boys
"Sonic Reducer" - Dead Boys
"Shot by Both Sides" - Magazine
"Mystery Dance" - Elvis Costello
"Trash" - New York Dolls
"The Day The World Turned Day-Glo" - X-Ray Spex
"Do Anything You Wanna Do" - Eddie and the Hot Rods

Disc three
"Ready Steady Go" - Generation X
"Teenage Kicks" - The Undertones
"Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll" - Ian Dury
"Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've?)" - Buzzcocks
"Rocket U.S.A." - Suicide
"Mongoloid" - Devo
"Homicide" - 999
"Mr. Big" - The Dils
"Warsaw" - Joy Division
"Where Were You?" - The Mekons
"Lexicon Devil" - The Germs
"(My Baby Does) Good Sculptures" - The Rezillos
"The Wait - The Pretenders
"We Got The Neutron Bomb" - The Weirdos
"Pablo Picasso" - The Modern Lovers
"Action Time Vision" - Alternative TV
"2-4-6-8 Motorway" - Tom Robinson Band
"We Are The One" - The Avengers
"Borstal Breakout" - Sham 69
"Wasted" - Black Flag
"Sheena Is a Punk Rocker" - Ramones
"I Love Livin' in the City" - Fear
"She's So Modern" - The Boomtown Rats
"Ghosts Of Princes In Towers" - Rich Kids
"We're Desperate" - X
"You Drive Me Ape (You Big Gorilla)" - The Dickies
"Dancing The Night Away" - The Motors

Disc four
"Hong Kong Garden" - Siouxsie and the Banshees
"Hanging on the Telephone" - Blondie
"Top Of The Pops" - The Rezillos
"Adult Books" - X
"The Sound Of The Suburbs" - The Members
"California Über Alles" - Dead Kennedys
"Another Girl, Another Planet" - The Only Ones
"(I Want To Be An) Anglepoise Lamp" - The Soft Boys
"Radio, Radio" - Elvis Costello & The Attractions
"Typical Girls" - The Slits
"Human Fly" - The Cramps
"Psycho Killer" - Talking Heads
"Babylon's Burning" - The Ruts
"If The Kids Are United" - Sham 69
"Alternative Ulster" - Stiff Little Fingers
"Boys Don't Cry" - The Cure
"She Is Beyond Good And Evil" - The Pop Group
"Is She Really Going Out with Him?" - Joe Jackson
"Get Over You" - The Undertones
"Love Like Anthrax" - Gang of Four
"Peaches" - The Stranglers
"Into the Valley" - The Skids
"You Can't Put Your Arms Round A Memory" - Johnny Thunders
"Love Will Tear Us Apart" - Joy Division

As for reading material, I also *highly recommend* Please Kill Me by Legs McNeil (a colleague of Holmstrom in the founding of Punk Magazine).



This is an oral history of the early punk movement by those who were there (McNeil had access to lots of the major players in the original punk wave). Incredibly compelling reading. Once again the NYC scene is very well covered. I'm actually going to re-read this to see if I can find any clues about Grimm, Schmidt, and Fiddler - the unsolved mysteries of this tale.

'No Thanks!' is still in stock from Rhino Records. I think 'Please Kill Me' may be OOP, or nearly OOP, but fairly easily available through re-sellers. Hey, we're wargamers. We're not scared by OOP. laugh



Wow !
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Sam I Am
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Punk's not dead...

...it just moved on from No Future to No Retreat
...from MDC to CRT
...from Zounds to ZOCs

I'm feeling nostalgic all of a sudden...
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ian morris
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I have a hazy memory of a music venue called The Mean Fiddler back in those days, could that be where Sergeant Fiddler comes from ?

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ian morris
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usrlocal wrote:
gamer72 wrote:


I have a hazy memory of a music venue called The Mean Fiddler back in those days, could that be where Sergeant Fiddler comes from ?



I was looking into that too. The Mean Fiddler is a bar in Midtown NYC that hosts a lot of music acts, including punky stuff (in fact, The Fall (one of my fave bands) are playing there right about now!). However, I couldn't find any info placing that venue back into the late 70s. Do you know for sure if it was around back then?


That's 32 years and a lot of beer ago, man. Very, very hazy....

zombie

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