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Small World: Tales and Legends» Forums » Rules

Subject: Decline & Fall - Can Someone Explain? rss

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Sky Zero
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If your race goes into decline the prior turn what happens? If your race is active the turn decline and fall comes into play, what happens? The card is very vague. Any help would be appreciated!
 
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brian
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skyzero wrote:
If your race goes into decline the prior turn what happens? If your race is active the turn decline and fall comes into play, what happens? The card is very vague. Any help would be appreciated!

The card forces all active races to go into decline immediately.

If you went into decline the previous turn, you only have an inactive race so the card ignores you. You then choose a race as normal on your turn to keep active.

If you race is active, it immediately goes into decline. Normal rules apply so if you already had a race in-decline, that race is removed from the board. When your turn comes up, you have an in-decline race so your only option is to take a new race as your active race.
 
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Snappy Dan
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Wesley Chapel
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
skyzero wrote:
If your race goes into decline the prior turn what happens? If your race is active the turn decline and fall comes into play, what happens? The card is very vague. Any help would be appreciated!


If you race is active, it immediately goes into decline. Normal rules apply so if you already had a race in-decline, that race is removed from the board. When your turn comes up, you have an in-decline race so your only option is to take a new race as your active race.

The bold portion is incorrect. If a player has an active race at the start of the turn in which "Decline and Fall" takes effect, it immediately goes into decline at the start of the game turn (not the player's turn). Each player affected in this manner has their VPs calculated (as he normally would when he chooses to put his active race in decline), and his turn ends; he is not allowed to choose a new race combo.

Link to BGG thread containing official clarification from Eric at DoW.
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Sky Zero
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Would have not guessed that. Thanks for the info and link!
 
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brian
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Mysterio wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
skyzero wrote:
If your race goes into decline the prior turn what happens? If your race is active the turn decline and fall comes into play, what happens? The card is very vague. Any help would be appreciated!


If you race is active, it immediately goes into decline. Normal rules apply so if you already had a race in-decline, that race is removed from the board. When your turn comes up, you have an in-decline race so your only option is to take a new race as your active race.

The bold portion is incorrect. If a player has an active race at the start of the turn in which "Decline and Fall" takes effect, it immediately goes into decline at the start of the game turn (not the player's turn). Each player affected in this manner has their VPs calculated (as he normally would when he chooses to put his active race in decline), and his turn ends; he is not allowed to choose a new race combo.

Link to BGG thread containing official clarification from Eric at DoW.

Then they should have worded it differently. The penalty comes from your active going in decline no matter what and potentially losing another in decline you would rather keep. Not that you should be further penalized by having a passive turn.

If it was meant to be passive, then it should have happened at the start of each player's turn instead of the start of the entire turn. Wording it that way then dictates what you do on your turn where declining IS your action. The way the card is worded, the timing is the same as Wheel of Misfortune. There it is very specific that if YOUR turn starts and you have no active race, you draw a new one.

By forcing the decline at the start of the entire turn you do two things that make it way too easy for those that went in decline the turn before: 1) you just cleared a bunch of regions of previously in decline races (making their net defense drop by 1 in most cases) and 2) just cleared all active regions from their defense of X to 1. That puts the person that went in Decline the turn before at a tremendous advantage. Not only do they not have a passive turn, they have an active turn with very little resistance. Since everyone knows what the next event is going to be, you would be stupid to not prepare for it by going in decline a turn early so you don't miss out on this advantage. And if everyone is skipping the "intent" of the car, what is the point of the card?

Finally, I am not taking Eric's word as gospel on this one. 1) I am always leery when someone posts a long list of rule questions, some other fan answers in detail, and then a company representative says "yeah all right" without correcting anything. 2) In the original thread that this came up, Eric responded on July 17, 2010 that he *thought* the answers were correct but he did not have the cards with him on vacation and was not certain. He never got back to the thread. Barliman then quotes the thread you reference and said Eric clarified it. However, it was a post from the exact same day posted 8 minutes later. Unless he magically got home, got his cards out, and got back on the computer within 8 minutes, I don't see why the same caveat shouldn't be taken with this ambiguous response.

So executive summary: the card's language and application doesn't support this interpretation and the CEO admitted he didn't have anything in front of him when answering so that doesn't lend credence to this interpretation either.
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Bryan Stout
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Thanks for the well-reasoned response, Brian. It would be worth double-checking with Eric or someone else from DoW to make sure about the ruling. And even then, as you argued, I think D&F makes more sense happening at the start of the player turn, not the game turn. People could always house-rule it that way.
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