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Memoir '44: Campaign Book Volume 1» Forums » General

Subject: An Open Letter to Days of Wonder Regarding Availability rss

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Stoic Bird
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Dear Days of Wonder,

Memoir '44 is one of my favorite board games, and I got two copies of the base game for Christmas this year. Excited by the prospect of Overlord scenarios (since at present I rarely have just one opponent), I started looking into the expansions, and came across the campaign books. I thought those would probably be perfect for my son and me when he gets older. I don't, however, really like the idea of paying $60+ for it. I was trying to find information about a reprint of the first one, and I noticed this in another thread:

Erich wrote:
We do try to keep all of the essential components of the game in stock or put them back in print as best we can but there are several items we simply can't reprint (usually because of costs and/or demand concerns). This includes the Battle Maps, but also the Air Pack and most likely the Campaign Book volume 1.

eric @ DoW


Now, I totally understand about the Air Pack, and somewhat about the Battle Maps, since those have significant components. From what I've read, it sounds like the Campaign Book is mostly a book with a small number of counters and a few reference cards - which means that it wouldn't be that much of a chore for the average gamer to print things out.

My point is this: I would buy a PDF version of the first Campaign Book from your store, and I suspect I'm not alone.

I wouldn't want to pay the full $30 for it since I'd have to supply some paper, ink and cardstock, but I'd pay in the $10-15 range, which I would think would be basically pure profit for you (as I wouldn't imagine that the cost of hosting this would be anything in addition to what you're likely already paying).

I appreciate any consideration you'll give to this.

Thanks,
Jeremy
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Geo
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There are a few available at the marketplace here starting at 25€.

 
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Stoic Bird
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Only one of the three will ship to the U.S. That seller doesn't say how much it would be, but given that the others charge at least 12€ to ship to Europe, that's US$48 even if it wasn't more expensive to ship to me (which I would assume it would be). At that price, I think I'd rather just stick with Memoir '44: Campaign Book Volume 2, but I'd buy both if it was a reasonable option.
 
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VolcanoLotus wrote:
Only one of the three will ship to the U.S. That seller doesn't say how much it would be, but given that the others charge at least 12€ to ship to Europe, that's US$48 even if it wasn't more expensive to ship to me (which I would assume it would be). At that price, I think I'd rather just stick with Memoir '44: Campaign Book Volume 2, but I'd buy both if it was a reasonable option.


The Greek person - that sells to Europe only - has a store in Greece. Send him a geekmail and ask if he could make an exception and ship to the US, if you can't find it anywhere else.
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Scott Wheelock
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I back this idea, and if I didn't have the CB1, I'd see this as a viable alternative, at the $9.99, or lower, price range.

It's the same sort of thing as DoW putting the full range of cards online; it makes it a lot easier to fully enjoy the M44 line, promoting sales of their other, in-print, expansions (i.e., I probably wouldn't have any interest in the Terrain Pack if I hadn't gotten the CB1).
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Joe F.
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VolcanoLotus wrote:

Excited by the prospect of Overlord scenarios (since at present I rarely have just one opponent), I started looking into the expansions...



If you are going to play Overlord (the best way to play) I would recommend that you track down those battlemaps ASAP. Ease of set up, miniatures that you can't get in any other expansion, and Overlord scenarios! I must warn you once you try Overlord, 2 player will seem lacking. Welcome to the world of Memoir '44!
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ATA Works
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If you look hard enough you may find a copy. I bought mine last week at 10% less then retail from an online hobby shop. Unfortunately it was the last copy.
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Stoic Bird
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Terrell78 wrote:
If you look hard enough you may find a copy. I bought mine last week at 10% less then retail from an online hobby shop. Unfortunately it was the last copy.


Good point - I'll probably check my local shops as well now that life has calmed down a touch.

I still think DoW should consider doing this, though, even if I personally can find a copy. I can't imagine I'm the only one feeling this way now, or who will feel this way, say, 3 years from now.
 
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ATA Works
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But there are hundreds of official senerios on the DOW site. Grab a history book and make a series of related battles into a campaign. It's really shocking how many are there ready to be downloaded.
 
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Scott Wheelock
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Terrell78 wrote:
But there are hundreds of official senerios on the DOW site. Grab a history book and make a series of related battles into a campaign. It's really shocking how many are there ready to be downloaded.


You seem to be a little stuck on suggesting workarounds. Jeremy is aware of all of these options, he'd just like for the Campaign Book, a good product, to remain accessible to Memoir fans without being a money-loser for DoW (the possibility of which is presumably why it's not being reprinted).
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David Kennedy
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swheelock wrote:
... he'd just like for the Campaign Book, a good product, to remain accessible to Memoir fans without being a money-loser for DoW (the possibility of which is presumably why it's not being reprinted).

I'm unclear as to how the product's unprofitability is determined. Since DOW just released a second volume, I'm puzzled on the finances involved. If the original was a money-loser, why would DOW another? I can understand the financial challenges with an expansion with molds. But, the book is just that. I'd assume there are plenty of printers the world over who could handle the job.

Personally, I'm thrilled there is a second campaign book and look forward to more. They are excellent additions to the product line. If they are money-losers, that's too bad.
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Josh Helton
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HitchKennedy wrote:
swheelock wrote:
... he'd just like for the Campaign Book, a good product, to remain accessible to Memoir fans without being a money-loser for DoW (the possibility of which is presumably why it's not being reprinted).

I'm unclear as to how the product's unprofitability is determined. Since DOW just released a second volume, I'm puzzled on the finances involved. If the original was a money-loser, why would DOW another? I can understand the financial challenges with an expansion with molds. But, the book is just that. I'd assume there are plenty of printers the world over who could handle the job.

Personally, I'm thrilled there is a second campaign book and look forward to more. They are excellent additions to the product line. If they are money-losers, that's too bad.


I would say it's not that the first was a money-loser, but that it may not have sold as well as they hoped, and didn't think there would be ample demand for a reprint. Since costs to print book 1 and book 2 could be approximately the same, they likely went with a new book which would provide more sales.

I think at this point, going PDF for the old book(s) (if/when 3 comes out) would be the best option for them. Maybe even offer them as an ebook for the iPad or Kindle Fire
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Scott Wheelock
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HitchKennedy wrote:
swheelock wrote:
... he'd just like for the Campaign Book, a good product, to remain accessible to Memoir fans without being a money-loser for DoW (the possibility of which is presumably why it's not being reprinted).

I'm unclear as to how the product's unprofitability is determined. Since DOW just released a second volume, I'm puzzled on the finances involved. If the original was a money-loser, why would DOW another?


Yeah, what Josh said above. I was just assuming (and I'm talking from pretty far up my own butt here, BTW) that the reason they weren't reprinting was because they didn't anticipate recouping their costs. I don't know that for sure, but it seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

Of course, I could also be wrong about an electronic version being low-cost, too, but to the layman (me) it seems like less of an investment coupled with less risk. Again, though, I could be wrong (it happens a lot).
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Stoic Bird
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swheelock wrote:
I was just assuming (and I'm talking from pretty far up my own butt here, BTW) that the reason they weren't reprinting was because they didn't anticipate recouping their costs. I don't know that for sure, but it seems like a reasonable assumption to me.


Eric from DOW did explicitly mention CB1 in another thread as something they "can't" reprint due to "cost and/or demand concerns", so I think that assumption is pretty well founded.

swheelock wrote:
Of course, I could also be wrong about an electronic version being low-cost, too, but to the layman (me) it seems like less of an investment couple with less risk.


I work in IT, and given the web operation they already have in place, the cost of putting this as a PDF behind some kind of paywall should be trivial. (I also know that sometimes business arrangements make things harder and/or more costly than they really ought to be, so it is possible there's some factor unknown to me that would actually make this cost-prohibitive.)
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Jaime D.
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I've got the same reply from DoW Europe:

"Thank you for your request.

The Campaign Book Volume 1 is really out of print I'm afraid...
There's no plan to reprint it, sorry...

Maybe you can try your luck with our Store Search Engine:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/store

Best Regards,

Franck Lefebvre
Customer Service
Days of Wonder
Play different."

And I really want the CB#1 because is the way to get the most of the game.

However, so hard to get a copy anywhere
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Simon Johnston
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I was just swinging through here to post a suggestion that DoW could post a PDF version on their website available for download for a modest fee - and look what I found!

Since several games companies put rulebooks on their websites for free (admittedly you must still buy the product to get the components, but still....) it seems like a pay-for PDF would not be too difficult for them to provide - especially since you still need the base game to be able to play.
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Rick Herrick
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I feel like tossing my two cents worth in here also with a possible solution. First a little background. I've been getting the urge to play wargames more and more over the last couple of years, but time still hasn't allowed me to jump into the long or complex games yet. Heck even the medium length games are too much for me right now. (Maybe when I retire eh?) So I've kept an eye out for easier, low commplexity games.

A year or so ago I stumbled upon Memoir '44. I read about it on the geek, looked at pictures and finally decided to give it a try. I bought a copy, read the rules and played the first scenario. I knew right away that I loved the game.

Now I still haven't been able to play too much of it, (or much of anything else) over the past year, but I've purchased an expansion or two even though I've barely touched the game, but I have played it enough to know that I'd like to have everything that's out there for it. That brings me to today and I'm running into the same problem that others in this thread have stated. Expansions and books are going out of print for the game and, at the moment at least, it doesn't look like they're going to be reprinted.

I forced myself to place an order from an on-line merchant for several expansions for the game just last week and I received them today, but I really didn't feel like I should be spending the money right now. However, I'm afraid that if I didn't get some of them while they're available that I might miss out on them. Heck, I only just barely got a copy of the first Campaign Book a few weeks back after I'd found out that it was out of print. A local game store still had on on the shelf so I grabbed it when I saw it. Lucked out there! I just don't keep close enough tabs on the gaming seen to see when something is going out of print so that I can pick up a copy before they're all gone.

It's frustrating that for a game that seems to be fairly popular and continues to sell year after year that things are going out of print for it. I understand that not every expansion is going to be a best seller. Some might not do very well at all. Still if you love the game and you'd like to get all the things for it then it can be very disappointing to find that you've missed out and you can only get what you're missing if you're willing to shell out big bucks to try and snag a copy on eBay.

I guess the lesson to be learned here is that if there's a game that you enjoy then start saving your coins up right away and buy it as soon as you can. The same goes for any expansions that you might want for it, because in this day and age any given game may not be around as long as you'd like for it to be and unless you can really stay on top of things you may very well miss out on stuff for it.

Okay, well here's my solution to the problem. I don't know what Days of Wonder's figures are on sales or costs for reprints or anything like that, but it seems to me that the very best thing that they could do for their fans would be to start up a P-500 list or whatever they would want to call it like GMT. That way they could see what the demand is for the game, book, or expansion that's gone out of print and yet would not risk a cent in reprinting anything for it until they had enough people committed to purchasing it to make reprinting worthwhile. Am I just crazy? It seems like the perfect solution to me.

If people want the 1st Campaign book reprinted why couldn't DoW figure up the cost and post on their site, 'Okay folks, a reprint of the book will cost $35.00 a copy (or whatever it turns out to be) and we'll do it if we get 650 people committed to purchasing it by locking it in with your credit card and, of course, you won't be billed unless we get enough orders to print the book.'

That way every one is happy. If a year goes by and they're only up to 130 orders then they can say, 'See we knew there wasn't enough of a demand and we'd have lost money printing that book.', and no one could argue with them. Plus people, while they might be disappointed that the reprint didn't come about, would at least feel that they had a chance to get it if there had been enough interest in it and they would feel that DoW heard their pleas and tried to do something for them.

If, on the other hand, they have 890 orders at the end of a month then DoW might go, 'Whoa! Guess there was a lot more people looking for that thing than we imagined! Let's get to printing!', and the fans get what they want and DoW would make some money. Everybody wins!

Otherwise, if you don't do this or something like this, I don't see how they can possible know whether a reprint is a bad idea or not. It just seems like this way would be the most risk free way to see if you can give your customers what they're asking for without having to take a chance on printing more than you can sell and taking a loss.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

Now...anyone wanting to sell me a copy of Hedgerow Hell? (At a reasonable price?)
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Todd
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Hey Rick, thats a great idea, I would go for that for sure.
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Mike Waleke
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I don't really understand where the big cost would be for a print on demand situation. Print on Demand publishing would probably run about $25.00 cost so they could still sell at $35 the trick would be making it only available directly from them (no middle man). FFG does this for some of their expansions so it is very doable. Especially with us rabid Memoir fans who would pounce on the opportunity.

(I wrote a book using print-on-demand technology and it was very reasonable to publish)
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Evan Francis
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Hi, just want to keep this thread going as this seems like, NO!, it is a great idea.

I would pay for a way to download and print out this book as, like many others, I have only just gotten into Memoir 44 and I see this book as a necessary purchase.

I want to do the right thing, I want Days of Wonder to take my money.
Please, just give me, give us, that chance.

Meanwhile, I look in vain that someone may have scanned the book and posted it online somewhere, however unethical that may be, because the price for this book is too damn high and I just want it that much.

(btw, type in to google "Memoir 44 Campaign Book Volume 1" and the automatic fill in is "pdf")

So, the reasoning is simple. The book is out there and it's OOP. Someone will one day scan it and a desperate community of people will download it.
Why not get in front of that and sell a high quality scan for a nice price and have those same people crash your servers in the rush?
Sounds good doesn't it?

I await your reply DoW.
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Jimmy TheOne
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After playing Battlelore for three years, I have finally begun to play Memoir' 44, only to find to my great dismay that half a dozen key expansions are out-of-print.

Great minds think alike, Rick! I would gladly put my name down on a Campaign Book #1 reprint request list on the DoW website.

Talking about out-of-print expansions, it seems to me that the main cost of the Air Pack is the pre-painted airplanes (although I may be wrong). Would it not be possible to reprint it using Overlord-style tokens for the airplanes?
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B Scrivner
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I'll throw my hat in the ring as well. I've just gotten interested in M44 and would like the Campaign Book V1 to be offered as PDF (or bound copy) as well. It was highly recommended to me by someone on another forum although they did warn me that it was out of print and I was likely to find that it was pretty much impossible to find a copy for under $100.
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Mats Lintonsson
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A PDF version would be an instant buy for me.
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Keegan Fink
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Nick Walker
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PDF or physical book, surely this has to a perfect use for KickStarter? Come on Days of Wonder, let us demonstrate how much we want this reprinted...
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