Pedro Lisboa
Portugal
Oeiras
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Hello,
I've played 4F a couple of times now, and had a blast! However, we have had quite a lot of debate on how to use telephone/complaint markers and who is affected by events. I've been using both translations available here on BBG (as my german is almost non-existant)
Here's what we've been doing:
Events affect a)the active player; b)if a card asks for it, a player chosen as a prerequisite, provided he was already a friend of the active player; c)if the card asks for it, a player chosen as part of the results, provided someone plays a telephone/complaint marker (either of the active or the target player's colour).
As such, the only way to meet other players is by playing a t/c marker affecting the results, not the prerequistes. Nevertheless, once you know another player, you can always drag him along on an event either as a friend prerequisite or as friend result.
Is this correct? Are all persons involved (whether as a prerequiste or as a result) affected by the event?
Sorry if this sounds a bit confusing, I tried my best to sum up my doubt as best as I could!
Thanks in advance for any help!
Pedro
P.S. - The designers should seriously consider expansions with new life cards and aims. Go thematic!
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Matthew Gray
United States
Reading
Massachusetts
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My understanding is as follows:
First, some "setup" so the examples are clear.
I am player A. Other players in the game are players B, C, D and E.
The non-players are V, W, X, Y and Z. I am friends with B, C, V and W.
If I win an experience which has a prerequisite of a friend, I may take any of B, C, V, and W.
If B or C plays a phone marker for me, and the other does not, I must take them.
If both play phone markers, I must choose one of them (not V&W) and only that person uses up their marker.
If I win an experience which has an effect of a friend. One of the following things happens.
1) Noone plays any phone markers. I may choose X, Y or Z.
2) D plays a phone marker and noone else does. I must choose D.
3) E plays a phone marker and noone else does. I must choose E.
4) D & E play phone markers. I may choose D or E.
5) I play a phone marker for D or E. I choose D or E. Any phone markers played by others are irrelevant.
I'll admit, this is the most confusing part of the rules, and when Friedemann taught it, it led to lots of questions. Two particular parts of his explanation made it a little clearer to me.
- Players may only ever enter into relationships of any sort with one another through use of phone markers.
- You can never deny a player a relationship in preference to a non-player, if phones are played.
As for the second part, it's currently my understanding that if a event has prerequisites of "friend and wealth" and has an effect of "friend and religion", and I use B as my "prerequisite friend" and C as my "effect friend", then I get C as a friend and religion, B gets C as a friend and religion and C gets religion. But, I'm less sure about this one. Marcel?
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Marcel-André Casasola Merkle
Germany
Munich
Bavaria
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Now let's clear some things up:
First, some "setup" so the examples are clear.
I am player A. Other players in the game are players B, C, D and E.
The non-players are V, W, X, Y and Z. I am friends with B, C, V and W.
>If I win an experience which has a prerequisite of a friend, I may take any of B, C, V, and W.
>If B or C plays a phone marker for me, and the other does not, I must take them.
>If both play phone markers, I must choose one of them (not V&W) and only that person uses up their marker.
Right
>If I win an experience which has an effect of a friend. One of the following things happens.
>1) Noone plays any phone markers. I may choose X, Y or Z.
No, I may choose B and C and all non-players (V, W, X, Y, Z)
>2) D plays a phone marker and noone else does. I must choose D.
>3) E plays a phone marker and noone else does. I must choose E.
>4) D & E play phone markers. I may choose D or E.
Right. But B or C may play phone markers too.
>5) I play a phone marker for D or E. I choose D or E. Any phone markers played by others are irrelevant.
I play a phone marker for B, C, D or E. I choose one of them. Any phone markers played by others are irrelevant.
>- Players may only ever enter into relationships of any sort with one another through use of phone >markers.
OR if they are friends with the active player.
>- You can never deny a player a relationship in preference to a non-player, if phones are played.
Right
>As for the second part, it's currently my understanding that if an event has prerequisites of "friend and
>wealth" and has an effect of "friend and religion", and I use B as my "prerequisite friend" and C as my
>"effect friend", then I get C as a friend and religion, B gets C as a friend and religion and C gets religion.
>But, I'm less sure about this one. Marcel?
That's much easier: If you, B and C take part in the event everybody gets religion and everybody makes friends with each other.
Best regards
Marcel-André
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Tony M.
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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This is a great post. This really helped clear up the topic. I just have a couple minor clarifying questions.
1) When I am the ACTIVE player and win an event that has a friend as an INPUT or OUTPUT, I may take ANY existing friends(player or neutral), WITHOUT using a phone marker.
The player(s) I choose CANNOT avoid being brought into the event.
2) The only thing that can prevent this is if the target(non-active) player is in a secure (level 2 or 4) relationship which my event would break up.
Example:
Was mit jemandem aus dem Freundeskreis/Start a relationship with a friend.
I am friends with a player who is married(level 3). I can play this card without using a phone.
As a result, that player separates from his spouse and he and I are now in a relationship.
HOWEVER
Same example, that player is Happily Married(Level 4). I cannot play this card because the Secure Relationship blocks it.
Am I correct here ?
Thanks !
-Tony
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Federico G
Italy
Firenze
http://www.gruppoludico.it/
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tmarozas wrote: The player(s) I choose CANNOT avoid being brought into the event.
2) The only thing that can prevent this is if the target(non-active) player is in a secure (level 2 or 4) relationship which my event would break up.
The other thing that can prevent this is if another player, whom you are friend with, plays one telephone marker of your color. In that case, you must take him with you in the event (unless someone else or you yourself choose to play a telephone marker too, and so on, and so forth).
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eryn roston
United Kingdom
London
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Okay I've read this forum and I am still just a tad uncertain about things so how about we look at a few specific examples?
First card: "Carnival"
Prereqs: none
Effect: resets wisdom, gain Alcohol, sex, and gain 2 friends.
So that means if I win this card, my wisdom goes to zero, I gain one alcohol and one anonymous sex token. I also gain 2 friends. I can choose to spend a telephone token to force a player into this, or another player(s) can spend tokens to make sure they come along as well. Let's say that both of these things happen so there are three players going to carnival.
Do these 2 players (the two non-active players) ALSO reset their wisdom, gain a sex token, alcohol...and 2 more friends?
Second Card: "Pickle Sundae"
Prereqs: Friend (a), Sex (a)
effects: fat, Baby(a)
so if I win this card I can choose anyone in my circle of friends, as long as that person has had sex (players who are currently my friend can play phone tokens in order to force my decision). Once chosen, we both gain a fat and a baby?
Flagrant Excess
Prereqs: friends(2)
effect: gain alcohol, gain smoke, gain drugs, sex
so if I win this card I can choose any two people in my circle of friends(players who are currently my friend can play phone tokens in order to force my decision) and all three of us gain alcohol, smoke, drugs, and anonymous sex.
First Semester Party
Prereq: Friend
effect: sex, alcohol, drugs, friend
If I win this card I choose a current friend (keeping in mind the phone chits) and we each get a new friend. the four of us (assuming they are all players) get sex, alcohol, drugs. oh wait...the two new friends should ALSO get new friends? a never-ending cycle?
Make a connection
prereq: Friend (a)
effect: Love (a)(*), gain smoke
(*) must be new friend)
I dunno WTF this card means. The prereg seems to contradict the star text.
I really want to like this game but I kinda hate it. 
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Doug Orleans
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
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I'm not an authority, but I'll answer these based on my understanding of the game from this thread and other threads here.
baditude wrote: First card: "Carnival"
Prereqs: none
Effect: resets wisdom, gain Alcohol, sex, and gain 2 friends.
So that means if I win this card, my wisdom goes to zero, I gain one alcohol and one anonymous sex token. I also gain 2 friends. I can choose to spend a telephone token to force a player into this, or another player(s) can spend tokens to make sure they come along as well.
You start by choosing two people, either neutrals or your current friends (or one of each). (The friend effect icon at the bottom of a card can always be used for either a new friend or a current friend.) Then other players can play phone tokens, then you can play your own phone tokens (you could play two if you need to override two others' tokens, in a 5 or 6 player game).
Quote: Let's say that both of these things happen so there are three players going to carnival.
Do these 2 players (the two non-active players) ALSO reset their wisdom, gain a sex token, alcohol...and 2 more friends?
Yes. They become friends with you and with each other (if they weren't already).
Quote:
Second Card: "Pickle Sundae"
Prereqs: Friend (a), Sex (a)
effects: fat, Baby(a)
so if I win this card I can choose anyone in my circle of friends, as long as that person has had sex (players who are currently my friend can play phone tokens in order to force my decision). Once chosen, we both gain a fat and a baby?
You can only experience this event with someone (of the opposite sex) with whom you've had sex. And yes, you both get fat-- I guess the father eats the sundae too.
Quote: Flagrant Excess
Prereqs: friends(2)
effect: gain alcohol, gain smoke, gain drugs, sex
so if I win this card I can choose any two people in my circle of friends(players who are currently my friend can play phone tokens in order to force my decision) and all three of us gain alcohol, smoke, drugs, and anonymous sex.
And the two friends become friends with each other, if they weren't already.
Quote: First Semester Party
Prereq: Friend
effect: sex, alcohol, drugs, friend
If I win this card I choose a current friend (keeping in mind the phone chits) and we each get a new friend. the four of us (assuming they are all players) get sex, alcohol, drugs. oh wait...the two new friends should ALSO get new friends? a never-ending cycle?
No, you choose two persons (neutrals or players), at least one of which is a current friend. The three of you get sex, alcohol, drugs, and all become friends with each other.
Quote: Make a connection
prereq: Friend (a)
effect: Love (a)(*), gain smoke
(*) must be new friend)
I dunno WTF this card means. The prereg seems to contradict the star text.
I have yet to find an official answer for this one. The way I've been playing it is that you bring two persons who do not already know each other, one of which must be a current friend, and those two persons fall in love with each other (and all three gain smoke). But I'm pretty sure this is not what was intended.
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Jonathan Dietrich
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
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DougOrleans wrote: Quote: Make a connection
prereq: Friend (a)
effect: Love (a)(*), gain smoke
(*) must be new friend)
I dunno WTF this card means. The prereg seems to contradict the star text. I have yet to find an official answer for this one. The way I've been playing it is that you bring two persons who do not already know each other, one of which must be a current friend, and those two persons fall in love with each other (and all three gain smoke). But I'm pretty sure this is not what was intended.
We played it as a friend of yours (the pereq) introduces you to a new friend (the effect) with whom you hit it off (ending up in a relationship) and all three of you gain a level of smoking.
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DougOrleans wrote: Quote: Make a connection
prereq: Friend (a)
effect: Love (a)(*), gain smoke
(*) must be new friend)
I dunno WTF this card means. The prereg seems to contradict the star text. I have yet to find an official answer for this one. The way I've been playing it is that you bring two persons who do not already know each other, one of which must be a current friend, and those two persons fall in love with each other (and all three gain smoke). But I'm pretty sure this is not what was intended.
Somewhere there is the info that it should read "New partner", so you have to discard your old partner and can't advance him/her.
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