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Subject: Last Era Shipping and Operations Expansion rss

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Brandyn Orr
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Marietta
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Two questions:

In the last era, it says that you double your money for all that you made. Before this, do you pay yourself to use your own shipping lines? If you do, in the last era, do you double what you use on your own shipping lines?

I was reading through the rules and haven't found a rule on if you "operate" your company if you don't sell any goods. If you choose to manually expand then it operates. What is the ruling on that?
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Agent J
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You don't actually pay yourself for shipping lines, ever. You only pay others. If you use your own, it's just free shipping and you keep all the money for the production.

Basically, keep all the money you make separate. Then double it at the end. No special rules need apply here. Paying yourself for shipping just means you make the full amount from the rice/spice/etc. you shipped.

As for the operation of companies, you choose to operate a company. If that company does nothing, then so be it, but it still operates. You can use this do-nothingness to skip a round in the operations phase if it makes sense to do so. For example, if you're waiting for your opponent's shipping company to expand before you operate your spice company, and you have a rice company that isn't able to ship anything, you can 'operate' the rice company, have it do nothing, and then it's the other guy's turn and he can do his expansion thing.
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You can't handle the truth?
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GuardianFoxx wrote:
Two questions:

In the last era, it says that you double your money for all that you made. Before this, do you pay yourself to use your own shipping lines? If you do, in the last era, do you double what you use on your own shipping lines?

I was reading through the rules and haven't found a rule on if you "operate" your company if you don't sell any goods. If you choose to manually expand then it operates. What is the ruling on that?


For the last turn "double your income" question, I find it better to read it as double your profits.

For example. If you ship rice for $20, using your own boats you get:
[$15 for rice and $5 for your boat] = $20. In the last round, it would be doubled to $40.
If you used a competitors boat then you would get $15, doubled to $30.

The following is an exerpt from the FAQ to support this:

Quote:
6.3. Last earnings double

Question: Since all earnings are doubled in the last production phase and not just all profits, it is very profitable to use your own shipping lines - provided you control a shipping company of course - to make the longest possible detours in shipping your own products in this last production phase. This cannot be right. Shouldn't there be a rule that either (a) profits are doubled rather than earnings; or (b) you have to use the shortest possible routes if you are using your own shipping company?

Answer by Jeroen Doumen: Basically, the easiest way to play this is to keep a separate pile of money in the last turn (when you're sure it's the last turn, as is often the case after acquisitions, just move all your "Cash" to your "Bank"). The net money earned in the last round (i.e. the profits) are doubled. So it doesn't matter if you ship using
a long or short route over your own ships...


Question: On the last turn, earnings are doubled. Does this include money made from companies using your shipping lines?

Answer: Yes. All the money you make during that last operations phase. During the last turn, resources pay out the same from cities and shipping still costs/makes $5 per boat used. Just double, taking from the bank, any money you made on the last operations round (including earnings from owned shipping lines).
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Martins Livens
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I vote for wording "double last turns profit".
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Darrell Hanning
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crambaza wrote:
GuardianFoxx wrote:
Two questions:

In the last era, it says that you double your money for all that you made. Before this, do you pay yourself to use your own shipping lines? If you do, in the last era, do you double what you use on your own shipping lines?

I was reading through the rules and haven't found a rule on if you "operate" your company if you don't sell any goods. If you choose to manually expand then it operates. What is the ruling on that?


For the last turn "double your income" question, I find it better to read it as double your profits.

For example. If you ship rice for $20, using your own boats you get:
[$15 for rice and $5 for your boat] = $20. In the last round, it would be doubled to $40.
If you used a competitors boat then you would get $15, doubled to $30.

The following is an exerpt from the FAQ to support this:

Quote:
6.3. Last earnings double

Question: Since all earnings are doubled in the last production phase and not just all profits, it is very profitable to use your own shipping lines - provided you control a shipping company of course - to make the longest possible detours in shipping your own products in this last production phase. This cannot be right. Shouldn't there be a rule that either (a) profits are doubled rather than earnings; or (b) you have to use the shortest possible routes if you are using your own shipping company?

Answer by Jeroen Doumen: Basically, the easiest way to play this is to keep a separate pile of money in the last turn (when you're sure it's the last turn, as is often the case after acquisitions, just move all your "Cash" to your "Bank"). The net money earned in the last round (i.e. the profits) are doubled. So it doesn't matter if you ship using
a long or short route over your own ships...


Question: On the last turn, earnings are doubled. Does this include money made from companies using your shipping lines?

Answer: Yes. All the money you make during that last operations phase. During the last turn, resources pay out the same from cities and shipping still costs/makes $5 per boat used. Just double, taking from the bank, any money you made on the last operations round (including earnings from owned shipping lines).


I think you're misinterpreting something. Jeroen states that, in the final round, it doesn't matter if you ship using a long or short route over your own ships. This is because you do not "profit" from using your own ships. If you did, then it would very much matter how circuitous your route is, when shipping on your own line.

He then states, in response to the second question, that profits are doubled in the last round, including earnings from "owned shipping lines" - that meaning (when taken in conjunction with what he said previously) profit from other people using your shipping lines, not from your own usage.
 
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Agent J
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Coldwater
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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That being said, if you spend 25 on shipping to ship a rice, you actually double that loss as well.
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You can't handle the truth?
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DarrellKH wrote:
crambaza wrote:
GuardianFoxx wrote:
Two questions:

In the last era, it says that you double your money for all that you made. Before this, do you pay yourself to use your own shipping lines? If you do, in the last era, do you double what you use on your own shipping lines?

I was reading through the rules and haven't found a rule on if you "operate" your company if you don't sell any goods. If you choose to manually expand then it operates. What is the ruling on that?


For the last turn "double your income" question, I find it better to read it as double your profits.

For example. If you ship rice for $20, using your own boats you get:
[$15 for rice and $5 for your boat] = $20. In the last round, it would be doubled to $40.
If you used a competitors boat then you would get $15, doubled to $30.

The following is an exerpt from the FAQ to support this:

Quote:
6.3. Last earnings double

Question: Since all earnings are doubled in the last production phase and not just all profits, it is very profitable to use your own shipping lines - provided you control a shipping company of course - to make the longest possible detours in shipping your own products in this last production phase. This cannot be right. Shouldn't there be a rule that either (a) profits are doubled rather than earnings; or (b) you have to use the shortest possible routes if you are using your own shipping company?

Answer by Jeroen Doumen: Basically, the easiest way to play this is to keep a separate pile of money in the last turn (when you're sure it's the last turn, as is often the case after acquisitions, just move all your "Cash" to your "Bank"). The net money earned in the last round (i.e. the profits) are doubled. So it doesn't matter if you ship using
a long or short route over your own ships...


Question: On the last turn, earnings are doubled. Does this include money made from companies using your shipping lines?

Answer: Yes. All the money you make during that last operations phase. During the last turn, resources pay out the same from cities and shipping still costs/makes $5 per boat used. Just double, taking from the bank, any money you made on the last operations round (including earnings from owned shipping lines).


I think you're misinterpreting something. Jeroen states that, in the final round, it doesn't matter if you ship using a long or short route over your own ships. This is because you do not "profit" from using your own ships. If you did, then it would very much matter how circuitous your route is, when shipping on your own line.

He then states, in response to the second question, that profits are doubled in the last round, including earnings from "owned shipping lines" - that meaning (when taken in conjunction with what he said previously) profit from other people using your shipping lines, not from your own usage.

Nope, no misinterpreting here. Just math. It's the same either way.

Let's look at an example where I ship 1 rice over 2 boats, using my boats:

ex 1: I pay myself.

I get $20 - $10 (I payed for my boats) + $10 (cause I got my own money from my boats) = $20 - $10 + $10 = $20 -> Double it for $40

ex 2: I don't pay myself:
I get $20 from the rice = $20 -> Double it for $40.

Same answer.
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Harry Readinger
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I played a game the other day and this came up, however I think there may be a point to make about shipping for MORE than the cost of the good on your own shipping company on the last turn.

Notes: I didn't see anything in the rules about having to take the shortest route once you've chosen what company to use.

The rules for paying a shipping company state that you pay out the gains from the product, then when unable to do this, you pay from your cash. So on the last turn, normally this just evens out if you are shipping on your own lines. This has been investigated above.

However when you have to pay MORE than the cost of the good, say a rice I send using five boats (I make 20 on the rice, pay 25 for the shipping), I pay the 20 from the rice, then flip 5 from my cash to the "this turn profit" pile. Normally I'd make 40, regardless, but in this case I make $50. (45 net, since I already had the five bucks on hand, It just "become" ten bucks)


Unless I missed something in the rules, this means that on the last turn, and the last turn only, you actually gain money from shipping your own goods if and only if you "ship the goods at a loss", since it lets you flip more money from your cash to your "last turn profit" pile.
 
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Agent J
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Coldwater
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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It doesn't work like that. Any payments for shipping on the last turn are also doubled.
 
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Snooze Fest
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Hillsborough
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What about payments for expansion? If you pay to expand, is that subtracted from your turn profit? I don't think it is, but the question was asked elsewhere.
 
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