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I've seen reports of human players playing sub-optimally pre-sleeper in case tgey switch sides at the sleeper phase. I wouldn't do this as I'm in the 'always play to win with my current side' camp, and I thi k it's metagaming to do that. If every player did it, the Cylons would win every game, probably.

But it got me wondering if any characters in the tv show behaved in this manner when they were human.

I guess the only contenders are the characters who did eventually get revealed as Cylons, although ironically the only one who I can remember going through any serious 'Am I/aren't I?' confusion is Gaius. Who wasn't lol. Did he ever act agai st the humans out of a suspicion that he was a Cylon?

Eco
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Darrell Hanning
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So, you mean giving the other Six a tactical nuclear device somehow does not constitute an act against the humans?
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M. B. Downey
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Chief also goes through some issues where he thinks he might be a cylon.
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Danny O'Donnell
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DarrellKH wrote:
So, you mean giving the other Six a tactical nuclear device somehow does not constitute an act against the humans?


Covering up Boomer's Cylon detector results wasn't exactly helpful either. There was definitely some conflicting loyalty behind that.
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Edmond Hyland
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Ron Moore and the writers decided early on that there would be 12 cylon humaniform models, but didn't actually decide who all of those 12 were going to be until writing the second half of season 3. As a result, all of the characters were written with a degree of ambiguity to their actions in early seasons to enable them to retrospectively make sense as Cylons if they were later "outed."

Unfortunately - and I admit, this is just my opinion - Ron Moore's revelation that they decided who the "Final Five" would be not by reviewing past episodes and deciding who would make most sense, but rather by listing the various characters and deciding who would be "most shocking to the audience" resulted in a raft of sloppy plotlines and poor writing for season 4 to try to justify the choices.

I've heard the actor who played
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Saul Tigh
state repeatedly that he refused to believe his character was a Cylon because it made no sense to him, and continued to argue that point throughout filming seasons 3 and 4 - something that Edward James Olmos (Commander Adama) has confirmed him as doing.

I've also heard
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Aaron Douglas, who played Chief Galen Tyrol
at various conventions saying that he discovered earlier than the other Final Fivers that he was playing a Cylon because he read something he should've have whilst in the writers room - and that he made a point through season 3 of ringing David Eick up periodically and saying "I'm not a Cylon, am I?" just so he could call him out on it later.

Of the actors playing the Final Five,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Rekha Sharma (Tory Foster) and Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh)
were both happy with the decision to have their characters be Cylons, one because it gave her character much more screentime and more things to do, the other because it gave her a chance to work on the show again.

Apologies for the rather sloppy use of spoiler tags - I've not used them before, and didn't want to get shouted at for spoiling people, just in case.
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Patrick R
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I seem to be one of the few who actually really liked how the show ended.
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J'adore quand ils m'appellent Big Poppa
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Mighty Pope wrote:
I seem to be one of the few who actually really liked how the show ended.


I thought it was fantastic.
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Certainly beat them showing up on Earth during the 80's like the original show. Yeesh
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Edmond Hyland
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Brad Templeton wrote a long essay that incorporates most of my feelings on the ending of the show you can find it here) but rather than recount it - or post a huge, long, heated post - I'll simply say that I found the ending to be a huge disappointment, because...

- the show was "all about the characters, stupid", which was Ron Moore's mantra, until suddenly...
- the show was actually all about the big mysteries, so much so that the characterization of various characters had to be radically altered to make it fit, but...
- the answer to the mysteries was universally "God did it". Even when "God" can be shown to have taken actions that are at best completely contradictory, and at worst an indication that "God" hates everybody.

BSG was at times a great show - it set a huge standard, and fully deserved to win the Time Magazine nomination for Drama of the Year (for season 2) but season 3 was stacked with filler episodes, contradictions with previously established facts and periodically wonky characterizations that seemed to be needed to create "big shocks" for the audience, and S4 tried throwing in more mysteries that involved more wonky characterizations and inconsistencies until telling me that actually, the show was Art and that if I didn't understand it, it's because I'm stupid. I probably wouldn't have taken the ending as badly as I did if the show hadn't been so good to begin with, but for me it remains the most disappointing ending I can remember seeing for any show I've really liked. In many ways, I rather wish the show had ended halfway through Season 4, as had originally seemed to be on the cards, because while that was a brutal mid-season finale, it feels like a more fitting ending to me. YMMV.
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Cody Baker
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Yeah, finding that essay awhile back was very comforting to me, because I felt that I was the only one who hated the last season in it's entirety.
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Ecosmith wrote:
I've seen reports of human players playing sub-optimally pre-sleeper in case tgey switch sides at the sleeper phase. I wouldn't do this as I'm in the 'always play to win with my current side' camp, and I thi k it's metagaming to do that. If every player did it, the Cylons would win every game, probably.

But it got me wondering if any characters in the tv show behaved in this manner when they were human.

I guess the only contenders are the characters who did eventually get revealed as Cylons, although ironically the only one who I can remember going through any serious 'Am I/aren't I?' confusion is Gaius. Who wasn't lol. Did he ever act agai st the humans out of a suspicion that he was a Cylon?

Eco
hmmm, you titled your thread "character" as opposed to "player"... Only prime candidate I can think of is Boomer, whose weakness "Sleeper Agent", makes her more likely to be a cylon with +2 loyalty cards at sleeper phase.

As for in general, if humans are doing too good, you would have an uphill battle if you turn cylon later on, although I've heard some philosophies that they'd still play fully for team human and relish the challenge to try to win for the cylon team if they get turned halfway. Sometimes, it really is too big of a hurdle to overcome, but othertimes, it's quite an accomplishment.



Heisenberg wrote:
Mighty Pope wrote:
I seem to be one of the few who actually really liked how the show ended.


I thought it was fantastic.
Ditto


BrokenMnemonic wrote:
Ron Moore and the writers decided early on that there would be 12 cylon humaniform models, but didn't actually decide who all of those 12 were going to be until writing the second half of season 3. As a result, all of the characters were written with a degree of ambiguity to their actions in early seasons to enable them to retrospectively make sense as Cylons if they were later "outed."
If you watch Robot Chicken, he threw darts at a wall with all of the remaining characters' portraits to determine who the remaining cylons would be
 
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Mooseared Ferenczy
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Gaius did a lot of strange actions throughout the show, partly because he doubted his own humanity and partly because he wasn't sure other people would believe that he was human.
Boomer did some things early in the series to cover for herself when she thought she was a cylon and Chief also behaved oddly when Boomer was doubting herself.
As for the actual board game, yes it is metagaming, but it is an acceptable form of metagaming because the game is meant to be played to win. If it was an RP, I could see making a bigger deal of suboptimal play to hedge bets, but when I play BSG, I'm not assuming the character roll of Commander Adama, I am just using him as my avatar to play the game.
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Chris Hurd
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Saul Tigh played pretty sub-optimally, since he seemed to encounter his disadvantage so much. And he blew his once-per-game really early, which is bound to draw suspicion onto him.

In regards to the actor not believing his character is a Cylon because it makes no sense: I don't think he thought it through. Saul Tigh being a Cylon makes sense in parallel to a high-school bully who picks on openly gay kids because they are a closeted gay person themselves. It's a play on the angle "why are you so obsessed with this?" I believe that's referred to as "projecting" in the psychology realm. His Cylon hatred was in part based on his own fear of inadequacy.
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Joe O'Donnell
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The Final Five did not know they were cylons until they heard the music. So why are we concerned with how they acted previous to that?

In the game, a post-sleeper cylon essentially mirrors a final five cylon or a season 1 Boomer before she had her revelation. Of course, if it was going to more closely mirror the show that kind of cylon would always have conflicted loyalties.
 
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Mirth123 wrote:
Certainly beat them showing up on Earth during the 80's like the original show. Yeesh


I think that would have been hilarious. Although a bit silly, admittedly.

Eco
 
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Mighty Pope wrote:
I seem to be one of the few who actually really liked how the show ended.


I also liked the final season. I've been a massive Doctor Who fan since my childhood back in the seventies, and it saddens me to see some of the criticism of sci-fi nowadays from ostensilbe sci-fi fans.

The final season had Cylons, Adama being badass, Baltar being Baltar...good enough for me.

Eco
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BrokenMnemonic wrote:
Brad Templeton wrote a long essay that incorporates most of my feelings on the ending of the show you can find it here) but rather than recount it - or post a huge, long, heated post - I'll simply say that I found the ending to be a huge disappointment, because...

- the show was "all about the characters, stupid", which was Ron Moore's mantra, until suddenly...
- the show was actually all about the big mysteries, so much so that the characterization of various characters had to be radically altered to make it fit, but...
- the answer to the mysteries was universally "God did it". Even when "God" can be shown to have taken actions that are at best completely contradictory, and at worst an indication that "God" hates everybody.

BSG was at times a great show - it set a huge standard, and fully deserved to win the Time Magazine nomination for Drama of the Year (for season 2) but season 3 was stacked with filler episodes, contradictions with previously established facts and periodically wonky characterizations that seemed to be needed to create "big shocks" for the audience, and S4 tried throwing in more mysteries that involved more wonky characterizations and inconsistencies until telling me that actually, the show was Art and that if I didn't understand it, it's because I'm stupid. I probably wouldn't have taken the ending as badly as I did if the show hadn't been so good to begin with, but for me it remains the most disappointing ending I can remember seeing for any show I've really liked. In many ways, I rather wish the show had ended halfway through Season 4, as had originally seemed to be on the cards, because while that was a brutal mid-season finale, it feels like a more fitting ending to me. YMMV.


I just read that essay you linked to, and I'm afraid it made me start to rant, and then I stopped, smiled and showed my girlfriend http://xkcd.com/386/.

To someone like me, who is maybe more forgiving of entertainment, it comes over as a massive 'I didn't guess the ending right!', way-way-way-overly nitpicky thesis interspersed with adverts to his other wordy blogs on the issue.

Each to their own, however. As you say, YMMV

I guess it's pretty cool that the show, and the game, despite differences of opinion on some things, are still wicked cool enough overall to allow us to have a community of fans here.

I know that my life would be much poorer without this BGG outpost

Eco
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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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Ecosmith wrote:
I guess it's pretty cool that the show, and the game, despite differences of opinion on some things, are still wicked cool enough overall to allow us to have a community of fans here.


If it wasn't for the board game being so fantastic, I would have long since forgotten about nBSG and its four seasons.
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I will usually save my OPG for the 2nd half, along with (usually) any nukes or Quorum cards, unless there is a pressing need to play them. I also like to build up a big hand of cards for the sleeper phase and take 'selfish' actions like press room.
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Darren Nakamura
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Yeah, I don't know so much about playing sub-optimally, but I know it's very common that players will play in a way that benefits themselves, rather than necessarily benefiting Team Human.

Press Room, President's Office, and Research Lab, and saving OPGs until after Sleeper are all good for this. I don't think it's too meta-gamey either. It matches the show well enough. Baltar is the best example; he was always looking out for himself above anything else.
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I'm be hosting a 6P game with 5 moobs to the game soon, and I'm going to make a point of telling them that it's important that they play for a win for whatever side they're on as much as possible. I'm not so much worried about humans ruining the human side somuch, but if a cylon 'plays nice' it could be a downer.

Eco
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M. B. Downey
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Yeah, but if a cylon plays nice he can then reveal at the absolute worst (or perfect!) time. Those reveals are what's truly memorable.

Darren had a really good example of that in a session report recently.
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Darren Nakamura
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Yeah, you don't want to tell your Cylon players that they need to immediately start spiking Crises, especially those with insignificant consequences. They certainly shouldn't play pro-Human throughout the entire game, but you lose a lot of the intrigue (i.e. what makes BSG great) with outed enemies from the get-go.
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Carc >> BSG
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Ridel wrote:
Ecosmith wrote:
I guess it's pretty cool that the show, and the game, despite differences of opinion on some things, are still wicked cool enough overall to allow us to have a community of fans here.


If it wasn't for the board game being so fantastic, I would have long since forgotten about nBSG and its four seasons.


Strange. I have the exact opposite opinion. For me, the board game is just a slight step up from Diplomacy in it's Evil-rating.
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Nicola Bocchetta
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Sadly, I got the ending almost perfectly, about halfway of season 2... :-/
 
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