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Subject: Simultaneous win? rss

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Jamie Riehl
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
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We had a situation come up today where both players had a claim to victory. The runner (sitting at 6 agenda points and 2 cards in hand) successfully runs R&D and activates an R&D mole - drawing an agenda and a Trap (and something irrelevant). Corp has the 4 bits to pay for Trap. What happens? Does runner score the agenda and win? Corp activate the Trap and kill runner and win? A draw? Should we have drawn the 3 cards one at a time such that the game would be over mid-action depending on if the agenda or Trap came up first?
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Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
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Which was drawn first? If it was Trap, the runner loses.
If it was the agenda, the runner wins. Not so difficult really.

The order the cards are drawn in determines the winner.
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BT Carpenter
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Reston
Virginia
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camipco wrote:
We had a situation come up today where both players had a claim to victory. The runner (sitting at 6 agenda points and 2 cards in hand) successfully runs R&D and activates an R&D mole - drawing an agenda and a Trap (and something irrelevant). Corp has the 4 bits to pay for Trap. What happens? Does runner score the agenda and win? Corp activate the Trap and kill runner and win? A draw? Should we have drawn the 3 cards one at a time such that the game would be over mid-action depending on if the agenda or Trap came up first?


The Runner's Dead.

From here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/33262/netrunner-ruling...

o If you are accessing multiple cards from R&D, you can choose the order in which you take draws from the top of R&D, and intermingle them with accessing upgrades as you wish; you cannot alter the order in which you draw cards from the top of R&D. (Sparky, Netrunner-L, 11/18/96)

o The Runner chooses the order in which he or she will access cards, including any draws or face-down cards as well. That's the order in which they affect the Runner. If the Runner survives accessing all the cards there, the Runner can then score agenda and pay to trash nodes and upgrades. (Sparky, Netrunner-L, 6/12/96) The effect of each accessed card must be dealt with separately and immediately, before accessing the next card. (Sparky, Netrunner-L, 11/18/96)

(Emphasis added)
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Frizzler
Germany
Koblenz
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Hi,

yes, BT Carpenter is right, Runner is flatlined.


But if you want to dive deeper into it: It is a bit more complicated with R&D Mole...

There is currrently no ruling that answers the question:
"May Runner look at the cards that he would access without triggering R&D Mole before deciding to trigger R&D Mole?"
If the answer was yes, then he could look at the top card from R&D before deciding whether to trigger R&D Mole and access two additional cards.
Now, in your case, if the top card from R&D is the agenda, Runner would of course choose not to trigger R&D Mole (as he can win without accessing additional cards).

On www.netrunneronline.com, we had a long discussion about the bold question. We didn't yet find a conclusion...
My opinion is that R&D Mole should be errated to "Use this ability only when you are about to access cards from R&D."
(instead of "Use this ability only when accessing cards from R&D.").
This way, Runner would have to decide about the number of R&D Moles that he uses *before* seeing anything from R&D (at the same time when he uses Microtech AI Interface). This would greatly simplify the use of this card and it would simplify the run flow chart.
For your case, this ruling would mean that Runner is flatlined independantly of the order of cards on R&D.

SeeYa, Fabian
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Ludovic schmidt
France
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Hi Frizzler, we spoke by phone recently with Playful about this pb that is one of the last for our big 1.8 errata ...

we conclude that runner had to get the possibility to trigger anytime he wants after the begining of the access phase .

runner make a successful run on r&d.
runner accees 1 cards.
he can trigger r&d mole ... and so forth ...

but maybe we forgotten some things we raised on NRO have to speak again on NRO about that ...
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BT Carpenter
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Reston
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wormhole surfer wrote:
Hi Frizzler, we spoke by phone recently with Playful about this pb that is one of the last for our big 1.8 errata ...

we conclude that runner had to get the possibility to trigger anytime he wants after the begining of the access phase .

runner make a successful run on r&d.
runner accees 1 cards.
he can trigger r&d mole ... and so forth ...

but maybe we forgotten some things we raised on NRO have to speak again on NRO about that ...


Thematically:
The mole's job is to put information into an easily accessible place for the Runner. The run itself is almost instantaneous. How could a Runner (during the run) contact his mole, ask him for some additional info and wait for the upload? He can't? The mole needs to be declared at the beginning of the access, and all cards should be accessed 'simultaneously'.

I'd like to understand why you believe that the R&D mole should act differently than any other R&D/HQ access ability.
 
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