Recommend
44 
 Thumb up
 Hide
550 Posts
[1]  Prev «  2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6  Next »  [22] | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Women and Gaming

Subject: This is how complaints against sexism are treated here at BGG rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: De-railed_Thread [+] A_learning_Experience [+] [View All]
Steve Willows
United States
Woburn
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Gilby wrote:
nvarela wrote:
You find a post sexist? Feel offended with a post? Being called ugly names?

Stop reading, flag the post, and move on. As simple as that.

Just my 2 cents.


And if the same sorts of things keep getting posted? If flagging does nothing to keep from seeing the next ones posted? This sets an atmosphere.


I agree. It is not as simple as that.

Why would I want women or anyone for that matter to feel out of place or unwelcome in the wargames forums? As lovers of such games do we really want to alienate folks?

One of the great things about BGG is how I was welcomed in.

It should be that way for everyone!
16 
 Thumb up
0.31
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Champaign
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Ursus_Major wrote:
spartax wrote:
Ursus_Major wrote:
Unscientific survey: Searched the Wargames forum for the term "slut." Summary of the first 12 topics returned, based on the excerpts displayed as results:

4 include the term as a reference to the author of the post

8 include the term as part of a discussion on its use and offensive meaning

Of the 12 results on the first page, 3 were found in the AWOL forum and the balance in the General forum.


Out of curiosity, how is it possible to search the wargames forum? I try using forums>>search, but the subforums don't show up there.


Here's how I did it:

1. At the main BGG page, choose the Wargames icon. A menu appears below.
2. From the menu, choose Forums. The Board Game Subdomain: Wargames page appears.
3. On the Board Game Subdomain: Wargames page, choose Search near the top. The Board Game Subdomain: Wargames » Forum Search page appears.
4. Search as normal.


Ah! Great! Under the regular forum search, the Wargaming forums (and Thematic Games, etc.) don't show up.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MMB
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Octavian wrote:
Gilby wrote:


Trolling--often by insulting others--is just fine.


Trolling, especially by insulting others, is never fine. It is explicitly prohibited in the rules and results in moderation.

As we handle moderation privately, however, you will only see evidence for the situations you are involved in personally. So if you have only been moderated for crossing the line in response it will seem like that's all we respond to. It isn't.

-MMM


I have a question for you, Octavian. Without going into specifics, but I am curious.

Do the image comments on images of a female user/game image/etc. to the effect of "I'd hit that." or "I'd do her." Generally receive private intervention? And if so, has it always been so, or only after men and women complain at length?

For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.
26 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Champaign
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


Wow, that's extremely not cool. Well beyond the pale. I'm sorry you got comments like that, and also sorry that you felt it necessary to "let it slide."
23 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Willows
United States
Woburn
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


I really hate this. I really hate how men are observed as "pigs". I really hate how women are victims of our failures.

You should NOT let this sort of thing slide. Ever.

We spend all of our lives in a struggle to make intellect win out over less attractive instincts. Perhaps we men need to understand that "boys will be boys" mentality needs to become embarrassing history rather than present fact.

Because failure in this regard is hurtful.

I don't think we're bad guys. Most of us don't want to be hurtful.

But it does seem kind of like that Billy Joel line in reverse sometimes; "he'll carelessly cut you and laugh while your bleeding".

I salute the ladies who have come forward to raise our awareness on this issue!

I, for one, will not stand for this. I don't feel like I ever have, but it might be true that I may have viewed something as not a big deal when, in fact, it was.

When things are brought to the surface, they become "on our minds". Now we get a chance to show our stuff.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
mbmbmbmbmb
spartax wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


Wow, that's extremely not cool. Well beyond the pale. I'm sorry you got comments like that, and also sorry that you felt it necessary to "let it slide."


Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.

And we as women are pretty consistently told that our problem isn't "sexism" it is that we are humorless, if the guy is being polite... if he is feeling impolite the phrase is "You humorless b*tches just don't get funny and then spoil everybody's fun." Or something to that effect.

So if I as women hear/read something fairly offensive ... my first thought is was he *trying* to be funny ... and if I think it is even possible he was, it becomes a 50/50 proposition on if I will call him on it. Because getting pulled into the "you just don't get funny" conversation for the X-teenth time is sometimes just too large a price to pay to point out somebody is a jack-ass... again.
12 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M Monin
United States
Branford
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
mbmbmbmb
EgorjLileli wrote:


Do the image comments on images of a female user/game image/etc. to the effect of "I'd hit that." or "I'd do her." Generally receive private intervention? And if so, has it always been so, or only after men and women complain at length?


We've actually gone a step further with image comments and have been deleting the inappropriate ones when we are made aware of them.
29 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
mb
Good for you. Image comments are the worst place for this stuff, in my experience—for obvious reasons.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Willows
United States
Woburn
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.


Well, there is also such a thing as "man-speak". I've also had women tell me that they essentially do the same thing.

Some things, some humor, just won't be funny to the "other side" as it were. When a woman overhears "man-speak" it usually isn't going to sound very good. Men have a tendency to hand out friendly jibes among man friends. When such is overheard by someone other than a man, it's not going to sound all that funny. We think it's a riot.

Still, I can't really understand how a woman can tell a man that something isn't funny and is then told that she lacks a funny bone. I view that as a poor excuse for poor behavior. This is a public forum, not guys night out.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MMB
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
spartax wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


Wow, that's extremely not cool. Well beyond the pale. I'm sorry you got comments like that, and also sorry that you felt it necessary to "let it slide."


Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.

And we as women are pretty consistently told that our problem isn't "sexism" it is that we are humorless, if the guy is being polite... if he is feeling impolite the phrase is "You humorless b*tches just don't get funny and then spoil everybody's fun." Or something to that effect.

So if I as women hear/read something fairly offensive ... my first thought is was he *trying* to be funny ... and if I think it is even possible he was, it becomes a 50/50 proposition on if I will call him on it. Because getting pulled into the "you just don't get funny" conversation for the X-teenth time is sometimes just too large a price to pay to point out somebody is a jack-ass... again.


For the record, I did use the RED X. However, as Lynette says, if I had confronted him he most likely would have said he was kidding, or it was all in jest. Believe me, there was an undercurrent of seriousness in his insistent posts. Of that I am sure.
11 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
mb
EgorjLileli wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
spartax wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


Wow, that's extremely not cool. Well beyond the pale. I'm sorry you got comments like that, and also sorry that you felt it necessary to "let it slide."


Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.

And we as women are pretty consistently told that our problem isn't "sexism" it is that we are humorless, if the guy is being polite... if he is feeling impolite the phrase is "You humorless b*tches just don't get funny and then spoil everybody's fun." Or something to that effect.

So if I as women hear/read something fairly offensive ... my first thought is was he *trying* to be funny ... and if I think it is even possible he was, it becomes a 50/50 proposition on if I will call him on it. Because getting pulled into the "you just don't get funny" conversation for the X-teenth time is sometimes just too large a price to pay to point out somebody is a jack-ass... again.


For the record, I did use the RED X. However, as Lynette says, if I had confronted him he most likely would have said he was kidding, or it was all in jest. Believe me, there was an undercurrent of seriousness in his insistent posts. Of that I am sure.

Jokes are the best way of saying something untoward seriously and escaping the kind of attention that matters.

“As a madman who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death, so the man deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?”

yuk
16 
 Thumb up
0.26
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:

Jokes are the best way of saying something untoward seriously and escaping the kind of attention that matters. yuk


100% true!!

But it is also true some people really are clueless and think they are being genuinely funny in some way that they think is obviously funny to everybody.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
mbmbmbmbmb
Scrogdog wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.


Well, there is also such a thing as "man-speak". I've also had women tell me that they essentially do the same thing.

Some things, some humor, just won't be funny to the "other side" as it were. When a woman overhears "man-speak" it usually isn't going to sound very good. Men have a tendency to hand out friendly jibes among man friends. When such is overheard by someone other than a man, it's not going to sound all that funny. We think it's a riot.



:Grin: Hey I hear you. I spent a good portion of my last gaming convention weekend making "that's what she said" jokes. I can really get into Man-speak and have a blast with the right group of guys. The "insult" amongst friends thing is also an interesting social game I only play when hanging out in the "boys club". And even then sometimes I feel kinda mean after a great verbal "score". Even though I know the guys loved it and it is part of really fitting in with them and making us all more comfortable in that particular social circle. The magic to making it fun being it has to be a really great insult that isn't actually true in any way.

And yes there is a whole world of "women speak" that is similar.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Beachler
United States
Milwaukie
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Not having read a lot of threads that fit the bill of being sexist, misogynistic or homophobic (or any for that matter) I find it questionable that such terms themselves are being used. I am sure there are some people who are some or all of those things here. After all we are an international website and in some places it is perfectly normal to be those things. Still if someone used any of those said terms to describe something I said or did they clearly do not know me at all and I would be insulted to be called such.

One of the big problems with the internet is the extensive likelihood that things will be taken out of context or completely wrong. I'm not discounting anyone's feelings about things especially since I haven't read each and every post that may have been the problem. I'm just saying that its impossible to determine for most what a person's intent was and how another will react to it. Words do have meaning though and choosing the right ones can often be complicated if not impossible.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
p55carroll
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Games are not movies or stories; they're vehicles for creative decision making.
badge
"Desire makes everything blossom; possession makes everything wither and fade." (Marcel Proust)
mbmbmbmbmb
Peso Pete wrote:
Unfortunately, "humor" is often used as a convienent way to say something offensive and then deflecting any blame by saying "I was only joking!"

Other times, a cigar is just a cigar.

I can't count the number of times, in my twenty-five years of marriage, that I've made some whimsical, joking remark and been shocked when my wife took it in the worst possible light, as some kind of passive-aggressive criticism.

When it happens, I apologize and shut up, just out of kindness and concern, and to restore harmony. But in truth I was just joking--unless I had some unconscious ulterior motive that she could see when I couldn't. And I'd rather not consider the latter possibility, because I don't think I should have to be psychoanalyzed every time I open my mouth.

People have all kinds of sensitive "buttons." In a recent thread, someone asked what the most challenging cooperative game is, and I jokingly replied, "Marriage." Someone took offense at that, so I deleted my reply. Others came along and said it wasn't offensive and that the first person had overreacted. But who knows? It offended someone, so I pulled it. I wanted to make people laugh, not cause anybody discomfort.

But someone out there, upon reading that, is sure to wonder what marital problems I've got that would prompt me to post such a "joke." Some people see hidden anger or hatred behind every joke. People like that, IMO, drain all the fun out of a conversation.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, a joke is just a joke.

Not always, but sometimes.
29 
 Thumb up
0.32
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MMB
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Patrick Carroll wrote:
Peso Pete wrote:
Unfortunately, "humor" is often used as a convienent way to say something offensive and then deflecting any blame by saying "I was only joking!"

Other times, a cigar is just a cigar.

I can't count the number of times, in my twenty-five years of marriage, that I've made some whimsical, joking remark and been shocked when my wife took it in the worst possible light, as some kind of passive-aggressive criticism.

When it happens, I apologize and shut up, just out of kindness and concern, and to restore harmony. But in truth I was just joking--unless I had some unconscious ulterior motive that she could see when I couldn't. And I'd rather not consider the latter possibility, because I don't think I should have to be psychoanalyzed every time I open my mouth.

People have all kinds of sensitive "buttons." In a recent thread, someone asked what the most challenging cooperative game is, and I jokingly replied, "Marriage." Someone took offense at that, so I deleted my reply. Others came along and said it wasn't offensive and that the first person had overreacted. But who knows? It offended someone, so I pulled it. I wanted to make people laugh, not cause anybody discomfort.

But someone out there, upon reading that, is sure to wonder what marital problems I've got that would prompt me to post such a "joke." Some people see hidden anger or hatred behind every joke. People like that, IMO, drain all the fun out of a conversation.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, a joke is just a joke.

Not always, but sometimes.


Well, marital in-jokes are OK. It's when strangers on the internet direct them toward me that I get upset.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Willows
United States
Woburn
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
The magic to making it fun being it has to be a really great insult that isn't actually true in any way.


Now you've got it!

Hey Joe, there's a section here in the rules about you!

Say what?

Yes! It's called "limited intelligence"!
5 
 Thumb up
0.04
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Willows
United States
Woburn
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Exactly right, Patrick!

That's the fun of being human, yes?

But as the old adage goes; perception is everything,
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb


At cabinetmaking school, the ratio is about 15:1, male:female among students, and about 8:1 for teachers. One of the on-going shop gags was "that's what she said." So, I ordered the t-shirt from NBC's web site. Co-incidentally, I was wearing that t-shirt just the other day at Subway. I was the only custmer at the time. I wasn't sure of my order and said, "I'll just be a couple of minutes."

As quick as lightning, the woman behind the counter responds with, "that's what she said." She caught me off-guard as my attention was on the menu, which made it all the more funny. We joked back and forth a bit and it was pleasant. It's a gag everyody (most people) find(s) fun, the girls/women at the shop as well.

One instructor related an anecdote that he had a female student call him out on the term, "lazy susan." I'm sure most everybody knows what that is. If not, google it and it's the first gagillion images. "Why not 'lazy jack'?" The young woman filed a complaint and he claims he was suspended for a day. I say 'claim,' because I just find it so hard to believe that that would happen. Then again, I was surprised that someone was offended by the term in the first place, such that that is what the bloody thing is universally called.

I get offensive Jew comments all the frikkin time. Sometimes, for example, a comment containing the phrase "10% off" (in this context obviously referring to circumcision), is just funny. Not every comment is an attack, and people's language cannot (should not) be so surgically curtailed so as to remove every whiff of political incorrectness. I think George Orwell wrote of this. As another poster up-thread put it, sometimes "overreaction" does apply. If just saying that is in and of itself construed as an attack...well...day-to-day life must really bite.
.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Bitter Acerbic Harridan
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
spartax wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
For the record, in remaining on the site I have let many comments personally directed at me slide, including one where a user encouraged and then insisted that I go topless.


Wow, that's extremely not cool. Well beyond the pale. I'm sorry you got comments like that, and also sorry that you felt it necessary to "let it slide."


Well... you see there is a problem of often not knowing when somebody is serious or when they are making a "poor" attempt at being funny.

And we as women are pretty consistently told that our problem isn't "sexism" it is that we are humorless, if the guy is being polite... if he is feeling impolite the phrase is "You humorless b*tches just don't get funny and then spoil everybody's fun." Or something to that effect.

So if I as women hear/read something fairly offensive ... my first thought is was he *trying* to be funny ... and if I think it is even possible he was, it becomes a 50/50 proposition on if I will call him on it. Because getting pulled into the "you just don't get funny" conversation for the X-teenth time is sometimes just too large a price to pay to point out somebody is a jack-ass... again.


Yeah, I would prefer it when there is something fairly nuts like this that one of the guys speak up. If a women says something, I think it's usually dismissed as histrionic whining/hysterical woman syndrome. I know many guys on this site are awesome and would speak up. I just wish it would happen more.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Gilberg
United States
Norman
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Peso Pete wrote:
Unfortunately, "humor" is often used as a convienent way to say something offensive and then deflecting any blame by saying "I was only joking!" (like framing it as a "joke" somehow absolves them of any responsibility). Its more aggressive relative are those who offend others and then when they are called on it, complaint that people are being "politically correct". Both are intellectually dishonest and distract from the enjoyment of BGG.


A slight correction, in that this is hardly a problem that is confined to BGG. BGG is just one place where it can be seen. I'd argue that it is milder and less prevalent here than at many other places. That said, "It's worse elsewhere!" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JJL
United States
Silver Spring
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't been on BGG very long, and I haven't run into this issue so far. But I hope that if I do, I'll realize that both people and language are imperfect, myself included. If I post something, jokingly or otherwise, that a woman finds offensive and sexist, I hope I just respond by apologizing that it came across that way and telling her I didn't mean anything sexist by it. Even though I certainly think that I respect women and am not sexist, language is imperfect and can be interpreted different ways. I also don't always choose the best words, and sometimes I say silly things, like all people. I hope the woman accepts my apology as sincere, and we are both able to move on, feeling that we've been understood and respected by the other.

Unfortunately, this sort of understanding can be hard when feelings are hurt and people feel that an environment has become hostile. But if I instead respond by dismissing her concern and/or criticizing her as "overly sensitive" (because "I'm not sexist"), I shouldn't be surprised if she feels disrespected and further offended. If she responds to my sincere apology and explanation with a public tirade about how I'm a terrible person, she shouldn't be surprised if I feel disrespected and unfairly attacked.

Not saying that this is what happened with the OP's situation, I have no idea. But to the extent that these sorts of situations are the result of misunderstanding (rather than that the guy is actually a terrible person, or that the woman is actually irrational), I urge the parties to keep in mind that language is imperfect. And so are all of us.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Parker
United States
Fort Wayne
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Scrogdog wrote:
Some things, some humor, just won't be funny to the "other side" as it were. When a woman overhears "man-speak" it usually isn't going to sound very good. Men have a tendency to hand out friendly jibes among man friends. When such is overheard by someone other than a man, it's not going to sound all that funny. We think it's a riot.


Quoting from here because she said it so very well. But you should really go read the whole thing:

Quote:
I get that you don’t really mean that shit. I get that you’re just talking out your ass.

But please listen, and please trust me on this one: you have probably, at some point in your life, engaged in that kind of talk with a man who really, truly hates women–to the extent of having beaten and/or raped at least one. And you probably didn’t know which one he was.

And that guy? Thought you were on his side.

10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Jude wrote:

I only posted the thread because the admins refuse (after years of complaints) to do anything when women are referred to with vulgar names, and sexist comments and "jokes" are posted in threads about gaming.


thumbsup

Unfortunately, we see sexist comments or evidence of sexist behaviour (for instance by the posting of inappropriate pictures) every month on the BGG wargame subdomain.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BJ
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
You are full of poisonous refuse and insane foolishness.
badge
I had not supposed or expected your arrogant spirit to seek such a ridiculous and childish reason for lying; you should have better reasons.
mbmbmbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:
100% true!!

But it is also true some people really are clueless and think they are being genuinely funny in some way that they think is obviously funny to everybody.


Hey, I resemble that remark!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
[1]  Prev «  2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6  Next »  [22] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.