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Subject: OBG 80: Is That the End? rss

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Donald Dennis
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Donald Dennis and Erik Dewey are joined by Cyrus from Father Geek and Ben Lott to discuss game endings.

Erik Dewey and Donald Dennis engage in another reviewapalooza covering:

Red Dragon Inn 3
Catan Junior
Slap Shot
The Pyramids of Giza
Cosmic Encounter.


http://onboardgames.libsyn.com/webpage/obg-80-is-that-the-en...-

On Board Games is a proud member of the Dice Tower Network
RSS Feed: http://onboardgames.libsyn.com/rss
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Donald Dennis
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What games do you feel have the best ending? What kind of ending mechanisms do you love or hate?


Additionally I've just changed the way I'm going to do silver mines for Löwenherz. Now I'll just be handing out tokens for silver, and having the option of people keeping the silver in a bag. This will add a little bit of hidden scoring to the game and keep silver off the scoring track all together. If the players prefer for silver points to be not secret they just won't us the bags.
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Jason Lott
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Welcome back to the podcast, Ben! And FYI - the zombie tweeter is my friend Austin that I game with regularly - PatientRock here on BGG.

I'm with Ben that a partial-hidden ending is my preference. That's true for many of my favorite games including Ticket to Ride and Puerto Rico.
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Scott Nicholson
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I wanted to talk briefly about the 18xx ending, and why it makes sense.

In most 18xx games, the last few turns are usually just played out. As was mentioned, the companies are at their best, and then you play a few more turns.

While that sounds awful (and, if it takes a long time, can be), here is why that makes sense:

In many games, there is an artificial stopping point. If that point is known, people will change their playing style for the last few turns since "it doesn't matter anymore." How many times have you seen people spend all of their money or throw away their troops or do things that don't make sense in the game world because the reckoning time is near? Or games where you are just getting going and then the game ends, and even though you had a great plan, you'll never know if it was good enough?



This concept of playing to a point and then simulating a few more turns (which is also what Indonesia does by doubling all payouts on the last turn) is a way to prevent people from erratically changing their strategies because the world is going to artificially end. Instead, you continue to play the best you can, and the simulation of a few turns at the end means that you get to see if your great plan put you on a better curve for the future.

The concept it is putting into play is that everyone has now built an engine, and rather than just end the game, you get to see how your engine runs compared to everyone else's engines. In many games, you don't get that pleasure of just seeing how the thing you built works.

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Gil Bellemare
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I liked end that can be triggered, like in Stone Age. Either the building of one pile are all done, or if there is no more card available. It makes you wary of when the end is gonna be and try to plan ahead for it.


I also like when a part of the points are scored only in the end. Same game as an exemple: The buildings are scored at the moment they are built and the cards at the very end. Making it hard to see who is really winning. It helps reduce Kingmaking as a bonus !
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Ben Lott
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Wow, I learned a lot just from listening to myself here. I promise if you have me back I'll be better. (A little more organized and a little less giggly.)
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Donald Dennis
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snicholson wrote:
I wanted to talk briefly about...
Wait... you listen to these?

Excellent. Maybe we'll let you come back on the mic some time. whistle
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Jason Lott
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I would also like to say that you gentlemen must believe Ben! Heartland is a good game! For me part of the interest was the 3-dimensional tile laying that's going on, combined with a race mechanism. Hard to believe it all works, but it does.

I SWEAR.
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Erik Dewey
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And this is why I like talking (and listening) to Scott.

Excellent answer my friend. I get it.

snicholson wrote:
I wanted to talk briefly about the 18xx ending, and why it makes sense.
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André Nordstrand
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Lancaster is one of the games in which you don't alter your strategy for the last round. It's important to be consistant with your own strategy throughout the game. You might do some changes in order to limit your opponents point for the final scoring, but it's not illogical in the sense that you still have to gain something from it yourself. This, I like.

Oddly enough, this is probably why I don't like Power Grid. In this game you build up your engine, and you stick to it. It's repeated over and over again, each round. When (if) Step 3 is revealed, the final round is most often triggered. Nothing changes. It's the same darn thing you do yet again. Since money is important and often used as a tie breaker in this game, you can't go on on a spending spree.

I like Lancaster because of the enginge you build. I dislike Power Grid because of the engine you build. What's the difference? The engine in Lancaster is customisable. You do actions based on the location of knights. In Power Grid, you get electrons. Period.

Sorry to swear by using 'dislike' and 'Power Grid' in the same sentence
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Mike Paivinen
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On a completely different note: review of Catan Junior.

Did anyone else think that Erik was saying "layer" instead of "lair". I swear that I didn't figure it out until halfway through the review. I just kept wondering what's a "pirate layer" and how that was in anyway thematic. Oh, well. blush
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Justin Davis
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You weren't the only one. It confused the hell out of me initially until I figured it out.
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Erik Dewey
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Oops, sorry. Must be my New England/Oklahoman accent. I'll work on my clarification in the future.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Randall Bart
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Many people pronounce Dragon's Lair and Dragonslayer identically.
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Giles Pritchard
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I pronounce it Dragon's LAIR!
 
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Chris Berger
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caradoc wrote:
I pronounce it Dragon's LAIR!


I'm reading that as "DRAY-gen's LEA-uh", Giles. Whereas I, personally pronounce it "Dragon's Lair".
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Scott Nicholson
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Ayrk wrote:
Oops, sorry. Must be my New England/Oklahoman accent. I'll work on my clarification in the future.

Thanks for the feedback.



I do the same thing. My pronunciation of Layer and Lair are exactly the same, as I have the Oklahoma Twang that kicks in on Lair.

I also butcher the word dagger, saying "Daiy-gur".

I think it's that same sound in Lair and Dagger.


I blame the fact that I learned to play D&D in high school in Oklahoma, so my fantasy words like Lair and Dagger have the twang, while words like Hair and Pair don't have the same twang. That's interesting, in that I don't say "Lair" like I say "Hair" or "Pair".


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Eric Brosius
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snicholson wrote:
I blame the fact that I learned to play D&D in high school in Oklahoma, so my fantasy words like Lair and Dagger have the twang, while words like Hair and Pair don't have the same twang. That's interesting, in that I don't say "Lair" like I say "Hair" or "Pair".


Where I come from, near Philadelphia, the words "mad", "bad" and "glad" rhyme with each other (and don't rhyme with "sad", "had" or "Dad".) Go figure.
 
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Justin Davis
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You also say `wooder` instead of `water`. :-) I kid a friend of ours about that all the time.
 
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Donald Dennis
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It's the R in wash that always cracks me up. As in "You need to go warsh your truck." Yup, in some corners of Oklahoma, that happens.
 
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Eric Brosius
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Ruskicowboy wrote:
You also say `wooder` instead of `water`. :-) I kid a friend of ours about that all the time.


We actually do say "water", but the word is pronounced as if it were spelled "wooder".
 
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Fraser
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snicholson wrote:
I do the same thing. My pronunciation of Layer and Lair are exactly the same, as I have the Oklahoma Twang that kicks in on Lair.


Wow, in my version of English they have a different number of syllables!
 
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Scott Nicholson
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Karlsen wrote:
snicholson wrote:
I do the same thing. My pronunciation of Layer and Lair are exactly the same, as I have the Oklahoma Twang that kicks in on Lair.


Wow, in my version of English they have a different number of syllables!


There was a really interesting piece on public radio about English teachers in the southern US trying to teach the concept of syllables. One of the "features" of the southern drawl is that extra syllables appear. The idea of "put your hand under your chin" to count syllables doesn't work.


So, I do say Lair with two syllables, as it is a twangy word for me.
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Erik Dewey
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caradoc wrote:
I pronounce it Dragon's LAIR!


When I read it in my head it sounds like the teaser screen for the old Dragon's Lair video game. cool
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Cyrus Kirby
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Ayrk wrote:
Dragon's Lair video game. cool


Best. Game. Ever. I would spend many a quarter just to see the many different ways the character died.

Looking back on that behavior, as an adult, it is no wonder my parents were concerned about me...
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