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Conflict of Heroes: Guadalcanal – Pacific Ocean 1942» Forums » General

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Nigel Heather
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It's all gone very quiet here.

I'm guessing the June 2012 release isn't going to happen.

It seems that academy have a slight attention disorder.

Focus was on Guadalcanal but then they got distracted by Strike of the Eagle.

Back on track we were told, but then they focused on 1812.

Back on track we were told, but no sooner were we told, then CoH the PC game and AtB 2e have taken over as the favoured projects.

Is there some problem with Guadalcanal or have Academy just lost interest in it?

Cheers,

Nigel
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Jose Manuel Moreno Ramos
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I'm not sure, but as far as I know, CoH Guadalcanal are going to be prepared for solo game, with some info included at counters/board. The first solo game designed by Uwe and John Butterfield is planned for november. Perhaps there is a delay because the solo mode is still in development.
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Nigel Heather
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I'm sure there are genuine reasons, it's just that we don't know what they are.

All we see are rumoured release dates come and go without any news, and other games sneek in and take all the attention.

As I recall, Guadalcanal was announced before SotE, 1812:IoC, AtB 2e and CoH PC Game, yet all 4 of those have leapfrogged and been released earlier.

The Academy team are quite active on BGG so how about giving us a quick and honest update.

Cheers,

Nigel

Correction - AtB 2e may not have been released yet but it does sound more imminent than Guadalcanal.
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Jack Korolyov
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Atb 2e is delayed nearly for 3 monthcry
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Nigel Heather
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Quote:
Atb 2e is delayed nearly for 3 month


Thanks,

I didn't realise that. Mind you I have the original AtB and PoH so I doubt I'll be splashing out on the 2e, though it would be nice to have consistent boards.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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There always seems to be a huge gap between the announced release date and the actual date the product hits the stores. I'm guessing it is related to quality control. I'd rather have a highly finished product released later than a piece of garbage released sooner. AG definitely puts out a great product.
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Dean halley

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Greetings all,
I am in regular contact with Uwe, so I know that Guadalcanal is going to happen. But the time line for its publication keeps getting disrupted for a variety of reasons.

The latest has to do with a software upgrade (or maybe a new system)that Uwe purchased for laying out the rule books and firefight books for CoH. His files for AtB 2nd Ed. were corrupted when he transferred them to the new software, and now he has to go back and fix them page by page.

We are scheduled to begin laying out Guadalcanal for publication when AtB 2nd Ed goes to the printers, and AtB 2nd Ed was just about ready for the printers before this software fiasco. Now Uwe has to take the time to fix AtB 2nd Ed. before he can get started on Guadalcanal.

In the mean time I have been replaying all of the firefights in Guadalcanal to fine tune them, and I have been designing bonus firefights that will available after publication. There are so many firefights now (20+) that there is no way to include all of them in the published game. The firefights include at least three contests. A contest involves a number of linked firefights where the outcome of one affects the start of the next. So at least the wait hasn't been in vain.

I am as frustrated as anyone else, as I have been working on Guadalcanal for at least three years (I offered the game concept to another game company before Uwe agreed to do it). So hang in there. Its coming.

Dean





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Nigel Heather
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I never said that there weren't genuine reasons, just that we don't know what they are, nor do we have a clue when the product is coming out.

Garret Arcoraci highlighted the issue brilliantly with his comment

Quote:
I'm guessing it is related to quality control.


I.E. it is up to the community to GUESS what is going on because Academy sure aren't telling us.

Likewise, Jose Manuel Moreno Ramos's quote

Quote:
Perhaps there is a delay because the solo mode is still in development.


Basically it is all speculation.

Dean, you give some useful insight, but again it has had to come from the community and gives no scale of the delay. What it does spell out very clearly is that Guadalcanal has been put on the back burner, low priority in favour of projects that have come along afterwards.

Quote:
Now Uwe has to take the time to fix AtB 2nd Ed. before he can get started on Guadalcanal.


Basically, we still have no idea whether it is going to June, November, 2013, 2014?

I find it difficult to understand how a manufacturing company cannot know when its products are due for release. Although Academy does seem to be hit by calamity after calamity.

Quote:
His files for AtB 2nd Ed. were corrupted when he transferred them to the new software, and now he has to go back and fix them page by page.


Have they not heard of backups. Seems all to common that Academy loses the only copy of its crown jewels.

Cheers,

Nigel


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Jesse LeBreton
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I seem to recall that Fantasy Flight Games does not tell the public when a game might ship for exactly the reasons seen here. They got burned by making release date promises, so they stopped doing it.
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Nigel Heather
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I seem to recall that Fantasy Flight Games does not tell the public when a game might ship for exactly the reasons seen here. They got burned by making release date promises, so they stopped doing it.


Though in fairness their website does give an icon-based status for their games (like 'in development', 'at the printers', 'on the boat'), though the flipside is they aren't particularly good and keeping it upto date.

To be honest I wouldn't expect it of FFG.

I consider them a large corporation that doesn't openly get involved with the BGG community. Whereas, the Academy team are regular contributers and are very approachable.

If you look at forums for their other games you will see that they are frequenty participating but by comparison Guadalcanal feels abandoned.

It's a double-edge sword, that because Uwe and his team are so involved with the BGG community I would expect better information than I would from FFG.

Cheers,

Nigel
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John Spinello
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That's what I love about GMT and why I will only deal with them when it comes to new games. I absolutely will not preorder from anyone else.
They can have delays as much as the next guy, but they keep their customers updated.
I enjoy the COH system, but I won't get my hopes up for new expansions until they are physically available.


 
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joe mcgrath
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As a big fan of Academy Games & the Conflict of Heroes series, I look forward to Guadalcanal (and beyond that, to First Men In)and root for their success. Having said that, it's hard not to agree with Nigel and share in his sense of frustration.
Academy took the world by storm with COH; one gets the sense that since then they've taken their eye off the ball. I'm sure their other games are fun and innovative, but I have zero interest in the wars of 1812 or of Polish independence. The development efforts they have put toward COH have largely been revisions of existing games (iPad version of COH; revised version of AtB), but I'd much rather see the franchise expanded to the Pacific & western fronts than endless expansions/revisions of the existing game.
One can't help but wonder if Academy has lost momentum in the market to Band of Brothers and the guys at Lock 'n Load who continue to pump out quality titles in the WWII tactical arena. I hope not.
I hope the Uwe and Academy can refocus on what got them here. I hope that they keep us, their loyal fans, better informed. I hope that Guadalcanal comes to market quickly and that other titles in the COH series are not left to languish in development purgatory for years.

I hope.
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David Siskin
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Dean, thanks for this information. Your response DOES shed some much-needed light on the situation. True fans of the CoH system will just have wait and be patient.

It always helps the waiting to know what the status is.
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Andrew Kluessendorf
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navigator37 wrote:
As a big fan of Academy Games & the Conflict of Heroes series, I look forward to Guadalcanal (and beyond that, to First Men In)and root for their success. Having said that, it's hard not to agree with Nigel and share in his sense of frustration.
Academy took the world by storm with COH; one gets the sense that since then they've taken their eye off the ball. I'm sure their other games are fun and innovative, but I have zero interest in the wars of 1812 or of Polish independence. The development efforts they have put toward COH have largely been revisions of existing games (iPad version of COH; revised version of AtB), but I'd much rather see the franchise expanded to the Pacific & western fronts than endless expansions/revisions of the existing game.
One can't help but wonder if Academy has lost momentum in the market to Band of Brothers and the guys at Lock 'n Load who continue to pump out quality titles in the WWII tactical arena. I hope not.
I hope the Uwe and Academy can refocus on what got them here. I hope that they keep us, their loyal fans, better informed. I hope that Guadalcanal comes to market quickly and that other titles in the COH series are not left to languish in development purgatory for years.

I hope.



I don't think you can say that they've taken their "eye off the ball". Just because you don't have any interest in 1812 or Polish Independence doesn't mean that there isn't a huge audience for those types of games or that Academy Games isn't pumping out quality product. It's kind of like saying that GMT should only do C&C Ancients or MMP should only do ASL since those are your favorites.

I'm a CoH fan, but I also own 1812, Strike of the Eagle, the new CoH PC release, etc. I'm glad that they are producing quality games beyond just the CoH family. You really should try 1812 and Strike of the Eagle, if you haven't already. I respect the fact that they have a cash cow in the CoH series, but are still dedicated to releasing other new and innovative games. I own many of the other games that you mentioned, and Academy Games releases are still a step above in my opinion. And what better time to come out with an 1812 game, but on the 200th anniversary of that conflict?

I can understand the anticipation for the next CoH series game, but you really should try some of the other new releases. And if you're not interested, that's OK too - but don't try to imply that no one else cares about the other fantastic games coming out. And this is coming from someone who is a HUGE Guadalcanal fan. In Uwe I trust!
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Nigel Heather
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I don't think anyone was criticising 1812:IoC or SotE.

Personally, I have IoC and think it is great. SotE is also on my wishlist.

However, the observation remains.

Guadalcanal was described as 'coming soon' before the existence of IoC, SotE or AtB(2e) had even mentioned.

Yet, Guadalcanal appears to be put on the side burner whilst later games (IoC, SotE) have been announced, developed and released.

That is why is does look very much like Academy have lost interest in Guadalcanal.

They probably haven't, but we don't know because all has gone quite on the far eastern front.

Just to illustrate - First entries on BGG

10/Mar/2010 - Guadalcanal
27/Sep/2010 - Strike of the Eagle
1/Mar/2011 - 1812: Invasion of Canada

Cheers,

Nigel
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Jesse LeBreton
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This is a pointless thread. It will come out when it's done.
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Nigel Heather
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Quote:
This is a pointless thread. It will come out when it's done.


Actually most threads are pointless - forums are pretty pointless aswell.

Could be seen as a massive waste of talented peoples time - time and expertise that could be harnessed to do something much more productive.

But we do it because we enjoy it.

What we don't need is superior souls like you sitting in judgement over us.

If you don't like it, then don't read it, no one is making you - why don't you go off and do something useful like finding a cure for cancer instead.

But back on topic. What I don't think unreasonable, is asking a manufacturing company that posted in Mar 2010 "that design of the artwork was nearing completion and will be ready to go to the printers soon" when we can expect to see the game. Just a feel - a few months, end of year, next year. After all this is a game that has been nearly ready for over 2 years.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Jesse LeBreton
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nheather wrote:
That is why is does look very much like Academy have lost interest in Guadalcanal.

They probably haven't, but we don't know because all has gone quite on the far eastern front.
Nigel


It hasn't been all quite on the Guad game. Every now and then a fresh post is made letting us know the progress on it. It's enough for me. I see no need to belabor the point that it has slipped its launch time. Just be patient.

Perhaps this is what I should have said last night, but it was very late for me and I was tired. Hence the short post.
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Nigel Heather
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Quote:
I see no need to belabor the point that it has slipped its launch time. Just be patient.


I can be patient - I waited for Diablo III after all.

But it would be nice to know an approximate timescale. Are we talking a month or two, end of the year, 2013, 2014?

That's the point, we don't know and I find it hard to beleive that a manufacturing company has no idea when it is due to release a product, especially when they said it was almost ready to go to print over 2 years ago.

It is that which makes me think it has been put on the back burner in favour of other projects.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Jesse LeBreton
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My personal best guess as to why it has slipped so much is that the rules needed more tweaking to get it just right. That took them a hell of a lot of playtesting. Plus after the difficulties with getting the night fighting rules just perfect they then probably have been making sure the FF's have no obvious balance problems etc. You may have seen the post that said there are so many FF's that many will not even fit in the book and will be available for download instead. That's awesome news for me. That means the delay has in fact been adding value to this product each and every month.

The graphics and counters may have been done for a long time, as you pointed, but that is not all there is to do. A pretty game with poor rules and scenarios will do us no good. Remember the old saying "We will sell no wine before it's time." What company used to say that? I forget. Anyway, that quote always comes to my mind when topics like this pop up. If I was Uwe I would use that saying myself. Basically Nigel they are just polishing the sh*t out of this release and that is why it is so late
 
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Nigel Heather
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Quote:
My personal best guess as to why it has slipped so much is that the rules needed more tweaking to get it just right.


I'm sure there is a lot of that, and I'm not saying there are not genuine reasons.

On the other hand, with artwork 'ready' 2 years ago, means that there has been a lot of time to tweek rules.

If academy have been tweaking rules for 2 years, struggling to get the game released then I would say that they are working very unefficiently. A team working for 2 years with no marketable output is not financially viable.

In reality, I suspect, that a big contribution to the elapsed time is that it has been put on the back burner whilst the team concentrates on other projects (IoC, SotE, AtB 2e, AtB PC).

Of course it is up to Academy where they spend their time and effort, nor do they have to tell us. However, I have always seen Acadmey as much more in touch with the community than other gaming companies, (Uwe posts on BGG very regularly for example) so it would be nice to see a progress update.

Doesn't matter whether it is going to be another month, 6 months, year, 2 years. Not asking for precision just a ball-park idea.

The subject of this thread is that we simply have no idea, just community speculation and guesswork - everything has gone deathly quiet.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Jesse LeBreton
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From my understanding the rules development, scenario designing, campaign making etc are all being done by Dean. He's only one man and is doing this in his spare time I assume. Making Guad is probably not his day job. From what I gather he approached Uwe and said I'd like to use your CoH system to make a Guad game. I'll do all the scenario design and historical research he probably said. Uwe says great sounds like an awesome COH product. A deal was struck and Dean has been plugging away ever since. Playtesting this with his buddies at home I would also assume. This is not being handled the FFG way by a team of dedicated game studio professionals that are at it 8 hours a day. Academy Games is smaller than you think. What I imagine Academy Games is really providing in support is pretty much just the graphics design. Pavlos is probably the man that did the unit counters for Guad. You read Deans design diary on here right? The few posts that keep us up to date on progress. Well you can tell he's pretty much doing this out of his home and playing it with his friends. Sometimes a guys optimism for his creation jumps the gun a little and he makes the claim it should only take him so and so and then Uwe says ok I'll let the public know. Then sometimes problems emerge that you had not foreseen and you have to spend much more time on it than you first thought. This is obviously what happened to Dean. Like he told us a friend of his said the night rules were crap. Problems like that delay his product. And yes this I gather is very much Deans product not Uwe's. Uwe is only letting him use his system. Academy Games is not to blame for the delays Nigel. This product is very much dependent on Dean's timetable. That's my educated guess from what I read between the lines here on BGG.
 
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Andrew Kluessendorf
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Check out BoardGameGeek News - New Game Round-up: Relive the Titanic Experience, A Second Awakening & New Frontiers for Aliens. I assume this is the type of communication you were hoping for?

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Chris Farrell
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Getaklue wrote:

Check out BoardGameGeek News - New Game Round-up: Relive the Titanic Experience, A Second Awakening & New Frontiers for Aliens. I assume this is the type of communication you were hoping for?


Not really, since BGN had to prod Academy directly and then we only get the news deep in a third-party news source.

For me, the problem is that Academy took money for AtB 2nd back in January when they made it sound to me like the game was basically about to go to the printers. We've found out over time that not only was that nowhere near to being true, but now it's delayed again, with no notification or updates for customers whose money they already have.

Sure, OK, there are apparently some reasons. The history is that there always seem to be reasons for them. They're getting to be as bad as GMT was in their worst period, when it would be a year from charge to ship with zero customer communication. Every business manual in the world tells you to own these problems instead of hiding in a corner.

I like Academy, but they're doing all the wrong things right now - leaving announced project to dangle while they release stuff nobody knew they were working on, endless delays, leaving people who've already given them money hanging. They need discipline, product discipline and message discipline. GMT was on the brink of oblivion before they found that discipline. Academy may not be to that point yet, but at the rate they're going, it may not be too long.

[/rant]
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Doug Adams
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cfarrell wrote:

For me, the problem is that Academy took money for AtB 2nd back in January when they made it sound to me like the game was basically about to go to the printers. We've found out over time that not only was that nowhere near to being true, but now it's delayed again, with no notification or updates for customers whose money they already have.


Have they taken money? I pre-ordered this, but don't think they've charged me yet. The AUD is beginning to slide against the USD so this game is getting more expensive daily (for me).
 
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