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Joel Miller
United States
Washington
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Is anyone else underwhelmed by TLD? RTR kicked my ass really bad and this one seems to be a breeze in comparison.

I played the last couple expansion quests without a "dwarf" deck, but since we we're reentering the pit I thought it was time to try out all the awesome new cards that synergize with my little dwarvies. So I trotted out Dain/Gloin/Dwalin on the one side and Gimli/Thalin/Bifur on the other. I loaded the decks with almost all the dwarf related cards available. I played 3 times and seemed to win convincingly.

I think I might've broke the game when I played 2 "Untroubled by darkness" events giving all 10 of my questing Dwarves +4 WP to basically skip the final stage.


*SPOILERS BELOW*
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Each one of the "Locate" test I just skipped and suffered the consequences which didn't amount to more than a bad treachery or two. The Cave Trolls I ran into I handled without too much fanfare due to tactic events and massive attack power of Erebor Battle Master. Using the Lure of Moria card at the right time can ready my entire cast. I know this deck wont be as dominate outside of the mines because some of the cards that deal with underground locations really helped, but I do think this quest is fairly easy with this deck.


I'd like to hear what you guys think about both TLD and the dwarf related cards in general.
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trevor

Missouri
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you know there is one of these treads in every adventure pack. Sure anyone can dissect a pack to death and design a deck to meet the specific challanges offered by one pack. The real challenge is to build a deck that can go through an entire cycle.
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Joel Miller
United States
Washington
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seems to me the only quests that ive ever had a problem with the whole "one deck to rule them all" idea is journey to rhosgobel and escape from dul goldor.
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John Steinbach
United States
Forest Grove
Oregon
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Haven't played the scenario yet, but Dwarf decks are indeed very good. By far the most well-rounded of the "tribal" builds. Whereas Eagle and Rohan decks have fairly glaring limitations (questing and combat, respectively), I don't think Dwarves really have a weakness. They quest, defend, attack, get rid of locations, draw cards--pretty much everything you need to be successful. In solo play, resource matching can be a bit tricky (since Dwarves are spread across all four spheres), but Bifur and Narvi's Belt essentially solve that problem.

So, while I can't comment on the difficulty of the scenario itself, I do think you've likely developed two pretty solid decks. I'd encourage you to test them out against some other quests (The Redhorn Gate, Road to Rivendell, etc.). Even aboveground, they should work reasonably well.

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jakub praibis
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Indiana
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I find the Dwarves still to have some issues as well (even though they have been given BY FAR most attention with their six heroes and a ton of cards), the high initial threat (considering the need to play Dáin Ironfoot) for instance may prove difficult in certain quests, as the OP confirms by having problems on the Road to Rivendell, a quest I tend to breeze over with mostly Rohan forces, even though it is battle-heavy.
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Jamie Riehl
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Eau Claire
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I've been finding this game just increasingly too easy. I've been thinking of imposing some deck building limitations (highlander? random heroes?) to up the challenge some.
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Joel Miller
United States
Washington
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camipco wrote:
I've been finding this game just increasingly too easy. I've been thinking of imposing some deck building limitations (highlander? random heroes?) to up the challenge some.
I've been considering building a solo deck with no duplicates of cards in it
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John Davis
United Kingdom
Harlow
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A friend and I just beat this quest the first time we played it. Often we lose once or twice before we beat a new quest. This seemed easier than Redhorn Gate or Road to Rivendell to me, but we were playing pretty good decks. I'd want to play it a few times more to be sure but right now I don't see it as difficulty 7.
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
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Even my very mediocre (and that's being more than a tad polite) decks are thrashing this quest, 8-0 so far, only the second turn 3 win in my 150+ plays (other was Dead Marshes). TLD for me has already joined Carrock as joke DL7.

At least the last two quests have lifted my spirits a bit, played Road to Rivendell and Massing at Osgiliath (went 2-8 on both, yes DL 4 and DL9, same win-loss), but Watcher in the Water (7-3) and now Long Dark have upped the win-% quite a bit.
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Joe Eagle
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Agreed - DL 7 for TLD is a joke.

I tried the experiment of playing against it with Glorfindel (Lore), Eowyn and Aragorn (Leadership), and a deck of 50 "blank cards". By which I mean that I didn't play any events, attachments or allies - I only used my cards to discard on Eowyn and for Locate tests.

I still won 2 times out of 6.
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Derek Coon
United States
Redwood City
California
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Well you saved on resources at least.
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Brother Leon
United Kingdom
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I paid 100 GG for this thinking it was a Geek Badge...
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won on first go with same sylvan deck as posted for Witw. very very easy. will play again tomorrow and see if any different.
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Christopher Roddis
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Just to go against the grain...i thought i had it won until i wasted 9 cards of one of my 'fists' to cancel Foul Air for a locate test but failed and then took a mighty 22 pts of combined damage - yes really 22 pts of damage! Six allies dead and six heroes damaged by 2 in addition this triggered a supplemental engagement which caused a further 2 dam and killed-off Legolas.
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Matt Duckworth
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Illinois
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I am surprised by the amount of decks that struggle with RtR. My Spirfindel, Loragorn secrecy deck won Redhorn gate pretty steadily, and had one of the best win percentages against Road to Rivendell as any deck I have ever had against any scenario. This deck was underwhelmed by that one, though it was still a lot of fun! Of course that secrecy deck fell on it's face at WithW.

I have just started playing TLD but I have had very mixed results with my Spirfindel, Bifur, Legolas Noldor/Silvan deck. On one try, I slipped through without almost any problem at all, and a couple others I ended up dumping my hand to either Cave Spiders or wasting through a whole hand of cards on some locate test or another (btw, there are about 16 PASS cards in a 60 card encounter deck! I have yet to successfully explore Twisting Passages... any game I have tried to explore that location I have lost so far.

I don't think it's a joke, but DL=7 may be a good stretch as well. I do hear that it gets more difficult with 3 or 4 players, I have only played it solo deck.
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Shane Hubenig
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I too am finding the dwarf decks to be preforming strong in Moria. I breezed through this quest the two ties I played it.

I also built my decks to go through all the kazadum levels, and the same decks preform well.

Oddly the only one thjat can sometimes get me is the first one. Into the Pit. If I draw poor for allies and a healthy mix of high threat locations pause me long enough for a few more goblins to come into play, AND those giblins draw some strong shawdow cards, they can get lucky and smoke a hero early and that can make for a struggle.

I used my decks a little different from yours,

I had Dain, Gimli and Bifur in one deck

Gloin, Nori and Dwalin in the other.

I had very few leadship cards in Dains deck, just a few one cost stuff, he mostly used Bilfurs ablity to keep Bilfur topped up with Lore coin to spend and stood arround boosting the other dwarves.

The gloin deck would keep its threat very low, and let dains crew do the heavy lifting combate wise, only letting a few goblins through to wound Gloin for purple coin, then killed by Dwalin for threat reduction.

I woudl not go so far to say the dwarf synergies are overpowered though, I still enjoy the puzzles and I am sure they will start coming out with more advanced quests soon.

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Shane Hubenig
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Just played it again after making my comment. Yeah its no where near a "7"

I breezed through it even with an unlucky start.

Dains group was first player and let a goblin sneak engage them, it drew a treachery card and snuck over to gloins grew that was questing hard.

I DID have a record keeper in play and could have readied gloin, but I was greedy and figured I wanted the extra income a wound would have given me.

I drew that shawdow card that makes you discard a character if undefended and I had no allies in play....

I needed gloins purple coins, so I chose nori to die over dwalin only cause nori had spent his coin and dwalin had not. (I played Bofur first turn.)

I thought it wouyld be bad being down a hero so early, but gloin quickly got out a longbeard elder and dains crews crew got out bombur for quest location controll and to latter on feed a cave troll.

Never really felt threatened the whole quest. A cave troll engaged Dains group after a treacher card cranked up my threat, but with chain mail on, Gimili took one hit from the troll, and the next two rounds I feed it allies as grimli pounded it down. Some other goblin enemies served to wound gloin for more points getting even more allies into play on that side....

with out getting into the nitty gritty grind of the game, even lossing a charcter 1st turn, I never really felt preasured by this quest with my dwarf group.
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Derek J
United States
California
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Resurrecting this thread 4 years later but I just played this for the first time tonight and I flew through it. I rolled with a Hama mono-tactics deck with 3x Thicket of Spears and 3x Feint. Other deck was a support Bereavor/Frodo/Eowyn deck.

6 turns later and the quest was toast. Hama is just insanely good with Thicket of Spears. Basically no enemy ever attacks and I never have to deal with any shadow cards.

I'm going to give this a couple more tries but this definitely does not deserve a 7. WitW was way harder than this.
 
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Dale Stephenson
United States
Buford
Georgia
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http://lotr-lcg-quest-companion.com/ has user voting for difficulty ratings. Here's how they rank the Dwarrowdelf quests on 1-10 scale:

7.8 Shadow and Flame
6.4 The Watcher in the Water
5.8 Foundations of Stone
5.6 Redhorn Gate
5.1 Road to Rivendell
3.7 The Long Dark

I think that seems reasonable, and the Long Dark is definitely rated as the easiest of the Dwarrowdelf quests, which collectively are on the easy side compared to the cycles that follow.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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Looking over couple of the gimmie-win quests, Dead Marshes is pretty okay, listed at 3.8, barely more difficult than TLD. But then you have Conflict at the Carrock at 6.2! That one should definitely have a rating of 3-something, it's right on par with Dead Marshes and TLD as a breeze (even playing it blind the first time).
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Buford
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Conflict at the Carrock can be easy, if you're sufficiently setup when you reach stage two *and* have a threat under 34. My understanding is that not everyone playing that blind had that experience.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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At least with two decks, should be able to handle 2 Trolls each. Not sure if I ever reached stage 2 with threat under 34.

Funny thing was, the first time we played CatC, we had just gotten molested by Hunt for Gollum, so figured, let's try CatC, if a DL4 (THFG) took us apart that easy, DL7 (CatC) should be an even quicker game/loss. Only to end up with a cakewalk.
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Buford
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I didn't realize you had two decks. Facing down four trolls with two decks is a substantially different problem than facing it with one deck. Like many first cycle quests, number of players affects the difficulty level a lot. But I think the threat matters more, allowing them to be taken down one at a time. CatC has been called a puzzle quest, it's easy to beat if you take time to build up and are able to keep your threat under 34. Not everyone's play style or deck(s) produces that approach naturally.

Randomness also has a huge influence, especially in the first couple cycles. I don't think of HfG as a very hard quest, three of the four times I played it (with three different decks, two one-handed solo and one two-player) I never felt terribly threatened with losing. The other time the initial setup left me no chance of victory from turn one. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my experience in a single blind play as an indicator of difficulty compared to the collected votes online. (At 6.2, CatC is a middle-of-the-pack quest.)
 
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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I think I played CatC seven times total (only had four decks back then, so pairing each one with another once, that's six plays per quest, plus an extra when playing with a friend), 7-0, never in threat of losing. Funnily enough, checking my logs, we also got both Hill Trolls during stage 1 in that first game. That HFG game we lost just before trying CatC the first time, this happened:

"End comes when three Clues are drawn during the late stage with two more Hunters from Mordor, massive 25 threat in the staging area"
 
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