Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Dominion: Alchemy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Possession question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Random Guy
msg tools
Ok... so i read the rules, and i understand 95% of Possession.

If there are 3 players A, B, C...

A plays possession, and he possesses B after his turn.
During B's turn (while he is possessed by A) he plays Possession on C.

So now, looking at the rules:

"... if you [player A] make someone[player B] play Possession during a turn in which you [player A] Possessed them [player B], that will make that player [player B] Possess the player to his left [player C], rather than you [player A] getting to Possess anyone further."

So it is clear that C will be possessed by B (so B makes the decisions for C, and A does not)

I'm just confused on when B gets to play his "real" (non-possessed) turn? Does he possess C first?

The card specifically says "the player to your [player B's] left [i.e. Player C] takes an extra turn after *THIS* one.

So it seems like it could be interpreted that B's "real" turn got skipped?


It could go: (Pb = Possessed by...)

1) A -> B(Pb A) -> C(Pb B) -> C

2) A -> B(Pb A) -> C(Pb B) ->(back to?) B -> C

3) A -> B(Pb A) -> B (regular) -> C(possessed by B) -> C

4) ??? some other order?

I think #3 is simpler to do(especially if people play multiple possessions in one turn).


I would like better if the card said:

"the player to your [player B's] left [i.e. Player C] takes an extra turn after this one, *UNLESS* you have an extra turn(s) - in this case the player to your left [player C] takes his extra turn after your [Player B's] last extra turns."

If this is the meaning... then for example, if A throne roomed a Possession, and in each of B's possessed turns A made him play Possession... the turn order would be:

A -> B (Pb A) -> B (Pb A) -> B -> C (Pb B) -> C (Pb B) -> C
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
00jt wrote:
2) A -> B(Pb A) -> C(Pb B) ->(back to?) B -> C

This. The possessed turns happen and then you go back to regular turn order.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Random Guy
msg tools
Quote:

Jeff Wolfe wrote:
Quote:
00jt wrote:
2) A -> B(Pb A) -> C(Pb B) ->(back to?) B -> C

This. The possessed turns happen and then you go back to regular turn order.



That's how I've been playing... but it just gets confusing....

For example, this turn pattern happens:


"A" Throne-room's Possession, both possessed turns "A" makes "B" play possession, and both possessed turns "B" makes "C" play possession, and B also plays possession on his own turn (making C again play possession). And for sanity, lets say "C" never makes "D" play possession.


A -> B (Pb A) -> C (Pb B) -> D (Pb C) -> (back to?) B (Pb A) -> C (Pb B) -> D (Pb C) -> (back to?) B -> C (Pb B) -> D (Pb C) -> (back to?) C -> D

Its all the "back to" that get confusing.

Which is why i was hoping the rules would have meant:

A -> B (Pb A)x2 -> B -> C (Pb B)x3 -> C -> D(Pb B)x3 -> D
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Newton
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due, my avatar is a scan of a hand-drawn caricature by cartoonist Jim Naylor which was done at my company's 20th anniversary dinner.
mbmbmbmbmb
Two thoughts on this.

Firstly, how often do these situations actually occur? How many games feature both Possession and Throne Room and the other cards etc for each player to be able to play a possession every turn? Even in such games, by the time all the players have got to 6+P enough times to be buying all those Possessions, this kind of Possession chain should result in everyone buying enough green to end the game before another one occurs (otherwise, why buy and play Possession at all if not to use it to get VPs).

Secondly, why did A make B play Possession at all? On the possessed turn A should be directing B to play for A's advantage. B possessing A will not be to A's advantage, so A should not make B play Possession unless there is some other reason for it (cards which get more powered with cards in play, or cards which refill your hand to a certain level). There are only 2 cards (as far as I recall) that make you play a card - Throne Room (but you know what is in the hand, and wouldn't play it if Possession is the only card to Throne Room), and Golem.

So all in all, my take on this is that it will happen so rarely as to not worry about the complexity if and when it does (there is always pencil and paper around, if needed). Also, I happen to think that it is easier to do all the Possession turns, and then return to "normal" (next player after the last non-possessed turn) than to interleave them and keep track of who still has to possess whom.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevin Beattie
United States
West Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
churchmouse wrote:
Firstly, how often do these situations actually occur? How many games feature both Possession and Throne Room and the other cards etc for each player to be able to play a possession every turn?


I've got a friend who is a Possession fanatic, and in one of our 2-player games he bought up enough Possession and action-builder cards to possess me almost every turn, sometimes multiple times. Once he even managed to play 4 Possessions in a single turn. Of course, knowing how the chain worked he would never play Possession while possessing me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
My first game of Alchemy was a four-player game in which everyone went for Golem + Possession because they were big and new and shiny and we actually had a full cycle around the table of people having their left-hand opponent play Golem and hit Possession. So it definitely happens.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Newton
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due, my avatar is a scan of a hand-drawn caricature by cartoonist Jim Naylor which was done at my company's 20th anniversary dinner.
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
My first game of Alchemy was a four-player game in which everyone went for Golem + Possession because they were big and new and shiny and we actually had a full cycle around the table of people having their left-hand opponent play Golem and hit Possession. So it definitely happens.

I didn't say it doesn't happen, I asked how often. And I meant for any given group rather than universally - which I guess I didn't convey.

If you (for any given value of "you") only see it happen in one or two games in real life*, then fussing over the rules on the order of possession turns (or even getting it wrong) is not a big deal in my opinion. If it happens every time Possession hits the table then that is a different matter.

Your experience does suggest that a significant proportion of groups will see this when Alchemy is new, and they could then think that it is more of an issue than I think it is. If the OP is asking the question from a real experience and not just hypothetically (which is how it came across to me) then maybe I could have worded my comment better rather than answer a hypothetical with a hypothetical.

*And I do mean real life, as in face to face, with real cards. I can imagine that some of those who play on Isotropic etc a lot could see it more often just because of the larger number of games played, but then the software should take care of tracking turn order.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
churchmouse wrote:
Also, I happen to think that it is easier to do all the Possession turns, and then return to "normal" (next player after the last non-possessed turn) than to interleave them and keep track of who still has to possess whom.

I happen to agree with this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Random Guy
msg tools
I played a game today with Possession and Golem.

One time i drew 2 Possession cards on my Golem, and I also made my friend play Golem, which resulted in a Possession being played.

I still wasn't sure if i play my 2ed Possession before or after he played His possession... we went with "after" (like a Stack, if anyone is familiar with computers)

So:

A -> B(Pb A) -> C (Pb B) -> B(Pb A) -> B -> C


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Newton
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due, my avatar is a scan of a hand-drawn caricature by cartoonist Jim Naylor which was done at my company's 20th anniversary dinner.
mbmbmbmbmb
00jt wrote:
I played a game today with Possession and Golem.

One time i drew 2 Possession cards on my Golem, and I also made my friend play Golem, which resulted in a Possession being played.

I still wasn't sure if i play my 2ed Possession before or after he played His possession... we went with "after" (like a Stack, if anyone is familiar with computers)

So:

A -> B(Pb A) -> C (Pb B) -> B(Pb A) -> B -> C


I apologise in advance if this comes over as snarky, but if you look at the other threads in this forum you will see that this question has been asked, and answered, twice before.

You will find Donald X.'s answer here: Re: Multiple Possessions from multiple players: stack or queue?.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Random Guy
msg tools
first time on this site.
Thanks for link

(i had done a quick search... didn't find anything)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.