I've been waiting long enough and getting as many people into the hobby as I can but it feels like a losing battle. For every 1 person I convert into the greatness of strategy board games I have to defend my hobby against 10 others.

Just the other day I was playing D&D with some friends and fellow gamers. During the game we talked about all sorts of stuff which was mostly about other games. Near the end of the session I thought I'd ask em if they wanted to come to a monthly board game convention. "Uhm, like Monopoly and Risk?"

That's when it hit me. There's a lot of gamers in America and most of em have no idea of the recent advancments in board game theory. Their idea of adults playing games is limited to party games and their perception of strategy games is limited to Risk and Axis & Allies.

After I gave the D&D guys the usual spiel about more emphasis on strategy instead of luck, more choices on your turn and your choices have a bigger impact on the game, they seemed totaly into it and more than likely will attend the next convention.

I think the major players in the board game industry need to take a more active role in getting name recognition for them selfs. I mean, it seems like it's resting on the shoulders of the fans to promote board games in order for more people to buy the games and keep everything going. There's lots of gamers out there that would love to play board games but they don't even know it!

I think getting recognition and shelf-space from the buyers at Toys R US and WALMART may be the real challenge here.

What was so special about Heroscape? Compared to the games us geeks are used too, nothing. Compared to what was already on the shelf, everything.

To us geeks, it's just another decent strategy game. A little to much on the luck side but the simple rules and terrain system totaly makes up for it. In other words, a sure hit for us gamers. But the game has Hasbro behind it and thus is able to get into nearly every big box store there is and it's flying off the shelfs. It also has a good marketing campaign (for a board game, at least).

Gamers self-identifying as "geeks" all time can't be very attractive to people who might like to try games, but are afraid of losing their social credibility.

Personally, I don't feel gaming will be popular until we see public endorsements from celebrities who also play games; celebrities like oh, say, Vin Diesel.

I use the term "us geeks" in refrence to the name of this site, as I thought others did. I wouldn't use that term if it wasn't in the site name.

And video games were popular long before celebrities started doing voice overs for em so I'll accept your comment as tounge-in-cheek commentary on American values but not as a serious answer.

Interesting you bring this up, I was just thinking about this recently. The main question that keeps coming up is do we WANT them to become more mainstream? If they do, then the whole ball of wax risks becoming something that resembles PC games and their lack of creativity, originality, etc.

The PC game industry is ruled by corrupt publishers who won't endorse or fund anything that isn't a "Sure Bet", and as a result, the PC game industry is filled with brainless sequels every year. Essentially the same gameplay for the last 10 years with prettier graphics. Big publishers have killed any remaining developers that were original and unique, consuming them into their corporate environments.

The board game industry right now, is basically the antithesis of the PC game industry. If board games become more mainstream, and the greedy corporate players get involved, I fear for the hobby. There *IS* a reason the US is filled with endless Monopoly versions, it is easy money, a guaranteed sale, and takes no ingenuity to produce one.

We risk having Puerto Rico 2005, Puerto Rico 2006, and a succession of pretty much the same game, with different bits and 3 different rules if big companies get involved here. Perhaps it is better for all of us if this continues to be a cottage industry.

Hasn't that already happened with Catan?

First off, it's not like the boardgame industry is dying. It's alive and well.
Second, What's wrong with fans promoting the game? I'd rather hear that a product is good/fun/useful from someone who uses/plays it, rather than some totally cheesy tv ad. Also, Instead of seeing an ad for a game that says "the greatest game ever, fun for the whole family" etc, I'd prefer that boardgamers recommend games to their friends based on thier tastes. Obviously there is no single game that everyone will love. But there probably is a game that any single person will love, but it's a chance for their friends who knows the persons likes/dislikes to find what it is. Perhaps the person likes card games like Poker and their friend might know of a similar game that they could introduce that person to, and lead them to the world of boardgames.

Lets not confuse expansions and editions with "Sequels". Sequels are few and far between in board games, but new editions and expansions can be pretty common. Contrast that with PC games that is sequel dependant, and few if any "New" concepts come out each year, of the 20 biggest PC games in the last year, 19 were sequels, and only 1 was original.

Catan isn't a good example, because if it was, we'd see Catan 2, Catan 3, Catan 4, Catan 5 with the same gameplay but perhaps glossier bits being the only difference..

VERY different things than expansions and editions.

Correct, but the PC industry is dying. Profits on average are down 25% this year, and sales are slumping.

Do we really want to model board gaming after something like PC gaming? For me, i'd like to keep the big mega-corporations out of it as much as possible. Once they arrive, it won't be long before the decline begins.

And just think of the time you hear, "That Knizia guy is a sell-out. He fell into big-business, and now only works with Hasbro." You lose a lot of the "underground" lets say "hardcore" of it, the meat will fade as it becomes to mainstream. Just look at what "punk" became after Greenday ran it into mainstream. Now it is only about the looks, not the message. Boardgames have meat now. With big monopolies taking over, less meat and more fluff. I want the meat.

I totally agree with this. Hollywood movies, or the music industry, are also good illustrations of what to fear. The more you attract the "mainstream" into your hobby, the more your hobby will be affected by (1) mainstream tastes that may not be your tastes, and (2) commercialization of the form that happens in all sorts of mass-market endeavors, where manufacturers find it easier and more profitable to manipulate the market and people's tastes, rather than figure out what people would like and give them that. Right now, the success or failure of board games is almost entirely driven by how good the games are and how much people enjoy playing them. You can't say that in most mainstream entertainment categories, where marketing is much more important and good products without money behind them can't penetrate the market.

When will the board game medium take off?

Look around you- here you are on a website with thousands of board games fans, last year was quite possibly the all time best for new releases in the history of board gaming, and the hobby has conferences which fans from around the world attend.

I think you may be confused by the size of the spaceship- that allotment out there is actually the part we give to our friendly grgnard natives. We took off some time ago.

Conversely I'm quite happy with the situation as it is currently. There are enough publishers, enough designers, and a large enough market to keep a steady stream of interesting quality games coming out, not too fast for me to keep up with and not to slow so as to create deadtime. In fact, things right now are just peachy.

The Greeks, Indians, Chinese, and Japanese all had board games over 2,000 years ago. I'd say the medium has taken off and is quite healthy. Even in the United States today there are a lot of board games being played by various groups. My retired in-laws regularly play dominoes, various card games, and even Monopoly with their grandson. I contend that board games have taken off as a medium and they're doing very well.

I think the real question is, "Why haven't the type of board games I like taken off?" Outside of hobbyist such as you and I, I'd wager that most of the parlor games people play are those with a long history. Chess, checkers, poker, spades, hearts, dominoes, and of course the most widely known of American board games, Monopoly. Board gaming, as we understand it on the Geek, is a niche hobby.

Most people have never heard of Settlers of Catan, Carcassonne, or Alhambra. I have introduced a lot of my friends and family to some of these games and many of them have been a big hit. My nephew in particular just loves Carcassonne, but when I'm asked by my family members were they can get the game or how much it cost it's a bit off putting.

In short, don't assume that because the games we like aren't popular among the general population that board games have not taken off.

Marc

I was around for much of the micro-brew (beer) craze and I am into home brewing. I wonder if the gaming market is about where the MB market was around 1989? It may take off and will be a a big fad and then die down, once again leaving the better breweries (I mean game companies) intact and the larger beer (Toy) companies contracting to do some distribution of the smaller ones as well as a few take-overs like we have already seen with Hasbro and AH.

There are those who will play games and own a few of them (like folks who will order a good beer and know the difference between micro beers vs. mass produced drinks enough to order a Sam Adams over a Coors).

Then there are those who make beer tasting and homebrewing their hobby. In the end "gaming" is a hobby not just an occasional thing for most of us here. Like Home brewing our numbers will grow but never be extreme.

Here is my prediction: The gaming market will slowly grow, grab some attention in the news and among pop-culture vibes. Most people will spend one or two holidays buying the basic Euro games for each other. Most people will own a copy or two of a few good Euros and know to play them over monopoly the few times they bring games out.

Amoung those who have a pre-disposition to be "hobby gamers" and don't presently know of these games, they will latch right onto this and probably double our numbers.

All of this will probably drive enough economy to make game availabilty in the larger stores about equal with Europe. I could see certain games being staples in Walmart, TRus and Target with Hasbro working with smaller game companies to destribute the "Game of the Year" every year and a few other hot games for that time.

My 2cents.

How about Hugh Grant?

That's already going on but with games like Monopoly and Trivia Pursuit. What's worse, too much Monopoly or too much Puerto Rico?

Oh noes, the big evil corporations will take over and ruin everything!!

I say, "So what?" Let em. Good games will still be made and smaller companies will have an easier time of getting their games sold to big box stores than they are now, even if they're not attached to a "Hasbro" size game producer.

As board games become more popular the free market system will give us better board games. Why? Because the only true way for one board game to compete against another is in it's gameplay.

I honestly don't care if people think it'll ruin their favorite games. If I can go to the closest Target or Walmart and have a larger selection of Euro type games than my closest hobby shop does (half hour drive) and pay less for it too, I don't see a problem.

I work at a hobby game store and I still hear comments like, "what, like Risk and Stratego" when I talk about board games. I'll talk about my newest acquisition and people will tell me they love board games, and they play Risk all the time. RISK! This is not just an affliction of the masses! Even hobby gamers are largely unaware of the boardgaming hobby. It seems that their knowledge of hobby games begins and ends with D&D, Warhammer, Magic, and Munchkin.

Well let's see. Tell someone you're into comics and they assume you mean Superman. Many people will even say, "Wow, I didn't know they still made those." Tell people you love reading and they'll gush about The Da Vinci Code. Are you a film geek? Oh my god, I saw the funniest Jim Carrey movie! Try being an RPG geek that doesn't want to play D&D (or anything with elves in it) and even other gamers will look at you like you're nuts. How many Americans' knowledge of music ends with whatever is on the Top 20 list and think Nirvana invented punk rock (I've heard that claim made twice)?

You're waiting for a social and intellectual pastime to take off in America, a place where they think you're accomplaishing the same thing by having people over to watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind".

I wouldn't stay up too late waiting for America to appreciate boardgaming.

I hear what you're saying, Dave, but I think most of your analogies are too far off. You can go into any Target and not be limited to what the newest Jim Carry or similar type movie of the week is. They'll carry whatever's on the current top 20 music lists but you'll also find stuff to fit all sorts of tastes.

Yeah, the book selection won't be much but it's not like you need to order what you want off the internet, just drive a half mile to Borders and you're all set.

There's alot of different types of nitch movies and music and books but getting a hold of them is a whole lot easier than getting a hold of the board games we love.

The point is, we play games that are far superior to what's currently in the big box stores so how long do we have to wait till they start to carry it?

It was said the small publishers will have an easier time getting their efforts into the stores...why? There is no way Walmart is going to buy from an independant game company when they can buy at mass and sell cheap, thus monopolising the market - they already do this. Smaller computer game companies are not found at Walmart or Target either, and the computer game era definitely gave power to big companies - they simply ate up the smaller ones and made their own changes, and released them. You will not gain by giving big monopolies the idea boardgaming can make them money. They will ruin it. Anything without a name they know of will not be published because it will have a risk too high if it fails, and they won't give it a chance because of that "risk". No pun intended, though it is rather fitting.

PC gaming is muscling out the little fella 'cause the cost to produce a modern, mainstream game is skyrocking. The lengthy, expensive production costs have skyrocketed (alot like mainstream American movies) and then add the extra expense of cutting edge hardware, a PC fan is stuck in an annual upgrade cost all just to enjoy the latest high-tech game offerings. So now PC games have Hollywood like expenses and thus they inherit a Hollywood style advertising cost - just to cover the bloating initial costs.

Now boardgames are a different beast. Costs on printing and production are much easier to estimate - a Ticket to Ride board and bits and a Pirate's Cove board and shiny stuff are much the same upfront cost (at least much, much less volatile than a budget for a new game or a movie.)

Now as for the health of boardgaming, I don't have much faith in the American market. I'm leaning heavy on our European brethren to keep the gaming world healthy enough for a steady trickle of mepples to safetly land on these here shores.

I did't know a single soul that knew of alt-boardgames. I'm happy I stumbled on the mighty BGG and joined a local game group, and I'm also very pleased to now be more informed and able to spread the word to my (victims) close friends and family.

Part of the problem is that in order to sell something to a big chain, you have to be able to produce a huge number of units. Most game print runs are in the thousands because the small companies don't have a million bucks lying around to make a massive print run.

Walmart will ask for 100,000 units, they won't pay you for six months, and they won't pay you at all if they don't sell more than 60% of the games. Who has the capital to produce something like that with that kind of risk.

I don't think boardgames are by nature a niche thing with limited appeal either. Everyone I've introduced Bohnanza to has loved it. Bohnanza could easily be as ubiquitous as Uno or Monopoly. I think many of the 'niche' games would be popular if more people had access to them.

It seems to be more of a limited production problem than a limited market problem.

Well over-all board games took off many years ago. But when will they ever be truely huge? Who knows, when a lot of people hear about card/board games they think mainly one of two things. One being party games, the other of course would be "kiddie games".

Look at Magic, while a lot of adults play it many still think it's just a silly card game for little kids. I believe the one way to get board games medium to take off more then it has is to get your friends and family to play them once in a while with you. Not all of them but most will enjoy the games and may start to see that board games are not just for kids. Once this happens they may get their friends and family playing, etc. Before you know it, you'll have a number of people playing them. Which in turn could give you more people to add to your game nights.