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Subject: Give me reasons not to buy this game (or convince me otherwise) rss

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Master of the Waz
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cannoneer wrote:

FWIW, this is how 2-player games are implemented in the iOS app by Ravensburger. I consider this definitive.

-cannoneer


The rule above is an exact copy from the rule book.
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ackmondual
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The short answer is: "you can probably go with a better game". Sure, it's not expensive, but if you keep buying these "not expensive" games, they will certainly add up in space and $$.


The only reason for you to get this game it seems is if you won't be able to get other games u like, and this is the lesser among the alternatives.


And FWIW, this game plays differently with 2p, 3p, and 4p that it's practically 3 separate games.
 
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Aaron Morgan
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Take a look at Eminent Domain, and if that appeals to you, buy it. It's a fantastic game.

If not, you really can't go wrong with San Juan. It's a tremendous value, and a great design.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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rculler wrote:
[q="larienna"]
Come cards are abusive and broken or gives you the game (remove library in a 2 players): Some cards seems to be more powerful than other and could break the game.


There is rule to address the library in a two player game that's easy to miss.

Note: in a 2 player game, the owner of a library may only use
it once per round! Thus, when the governor uses his library on
his first turn in the round, he may not use it on his second
turn in the round! Of course, if he does not use the library on
his first turn in the round, he may use it on his second turn.

It's a good game. I like the fact that it's easy to teach and enjoyable to play. I just wish the expansion were available separate from the Treasure Chest for a decent price. [/q

Thanks for the reminder!!! Forogt about this!
 
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ketigid ketigid
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EitherOrlok wrote:
Take a look at Eminent Domain, and if that appeals to you, buy it. It's a fantastic game.

If not, you really can't go wrong with San Juan. It's a tremendous value, and a great design.


FWIW, both EmDo and SJ plays in around the same amount of time, but I find the EmDo experience rather hollow and unsatisfying. SJ, on the other hand, provides an awesome experience when it ends!
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ackmondual wrote:
The short answer is: "you can probably go with a better game". Sure, it's not expensive, but if you keep buying these "not expensive" games, they will certainly add up in space and $$.


The only reason for you to get this game it seems is if you won't be able to get other games u like, and this is the lesser among the alternatives.


And FWIW, this game plays differently with 2p, 3p, and 4p that it's practically 3 separate games.

So, three games for the price of one!

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Steve
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Race for the Galaxy is much harder to learn than San Juan. I've taught both games to several people and there's a big difference.

RftG is well-designed so, yes, once you get it play flows smoothly. If I'm playing someone equally familiar with it, a game on boardgamearena.com can take under 5 minutes.

They're both good games. San Juan is lighter. That's all.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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I just came up with some variant ideas this morning. I'll wait to have the game and play a bit before proposing anything.

The basic idea is to add the role of the captain since many people would love that role to be present and some said there was too few roles in a 4 player game. If will allow to change goods in victory points (hidden) and it will spoil non-shipped resources.

The second idea is that unused roles will get coins on it, like in the original puerto rico, they will give an extra card when picked.
 
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Ben Bateson
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larienna wrote:

The basic idea is to add the role of the captain since many people would love that role to be present and some said there was too few roles in a 4 player game. If will allow to change goods in victory points (hidden) and it will spoil non-shipped resources.

The second idea is that unused roles will get coins on it, like in the original puerto rico, they will give an extra card when picked.


I'm going to play my 'nonsense' card for the second time in this thread.

Spoiling unshipped goods in SJ is - at most - a slightly irritating hindrance. I'd also like to know how one is supposed to keep track of 'changed' goods, given that one will not likely have a factory of one's new good.

An extra coin on a PR role is an interesting little incentive. An extra card on a SJ role is WAaaaaayyyy overpowered. There is a whole role that gives you a card for free...
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Fernando Robert Yu
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If you have the treasure chest card called the Harbor, it simulates this by putting 1 good you sold underneath it during the trading phase, similar to the chapel. This counts as VP. That is San Juan's take on the captain role.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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I'll wait to have the game, take a look at each card before advancing anything. I'll also take a look at all other people suggestions like I did for Age of mythology before making my variant.

Quote:
An extra coin on a PR role is an interesting little incentive. An extra card on a SJ role is WAaaaaayyyy overpowered.


That is something I thought afterward, you just get extra gold for buying buildings, but not extra cards.
 
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Steve Duff
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Personally, I don't think any of the "cons" in the original post are true. There's more than enough replay value, library isn't a problem if you play correctly, there are multiple ways to score, etc.

In my mind, Eminent Domain isn't anywhere the quality of game that San Juan is. I thought it was awful, actually.

So just buy San Juan.
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Steve
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
...buy San Juan.


And enjoy it. The game's not broken.
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ackmondual
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freddieyu wrote:
If you have the treasure chest card called the Harbor, it simulates this by putting 1 good you sold underneath it during the trading phase, similar to the chapel. This counts as VP. That is San Juan's take on the captain role.
Still not quite the same thing. Altho subjective given how SJ is a grossly simplied version of other games with this mechanic.

1) u only get to convert 1 good Per turn (all other goods are discarded

2) while there are exceptions, a good is either converted to cards/$$ OR VP

3) with only 3 Harbor cards, this is a minor occurrence in the game
 
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ackmondual
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Personally, I don't think any of the "cons" in the original post are true. There's more than enough replay value, library isn't a problem if you play correctly, there are multiple ways to score, etc.

In my mind, Eminent Domain isn't anywhere the quality of game that San Juan is. I thought it was awful, actually.

So just buy San Juan.
Unless u'd care to elaborate, better to let those in the Eminent Domain forum make that call.
 
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Caleb
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ackmondual wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Personally, I don't think any of the "cons" in the original post are true. There's more than enough replay value, library isn't a problem if you play correctly, there are multiple ways to score, etc.

In my mind, Eminent Domain isn't anywhere the quality of game that San Juan is. I thought it was awful, actually.

So just buy San Juan.
Unless u'd care to elaborate, better to let those in the Eminent Domain forum make that call.


Huh? He's giving his opinion about Eminent Domain. Why would he 'let those in the Eminent Domain forum' (whoever THEY are) make that call?
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ackmondual
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cannoneer wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Personally, I don't think any of the "cons" in the original post are true. There's more than enough replay value, library isn't a problem if you play correctly, there are multiple ways to score, etc.

In my mind, Eminent Domain isn't anywhere the quality of game that San Juan is. I thought it was awful, actually.

So just buy San Juan.
Unless u'd care to elaborate, better to let those in the Eminent Domain forum make that call.


Huh? He's giving his opinion about Eminent Domain. Why would he 'let those in the Eminent Domain forum' (whoever THEY are) make that call?
Simply a matter of

1) You can count on those in the ED forum to give a more unbiased opinion on why that's better than SJ. If they're there just to push their view on others, at least it gives others a chance to balance out SJ votes

2) it'd he nice if that post briefly mentioned why ED wasn't as good as SJ. At lesst the OP mentioned the cocerns for SJ.


I myself am burnt out on SJ (and yeah, it has replay value, but it's on the lower end IMO), so ED is a fresh new card game. I also find it to be elegant on its own way this far
 
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Richard Shay
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After dozens of plays, I still find San Juan a fun game . I play a lot of 2-player SJ and it is always challenging. Most of the criticisms are due to not playing enough against good players. If you do, you will see the breadth of available strategies.
I play a lot of Eminent Domain as well (shameless plug: podcast playboardgamesbetter.com). I honestly don't think of them as that similar. Eminent Domain is a deck building game where the strategy is putting together (and taking apart) a winning deck. San Juaun is about building a tableau that scores a lot of points, supports your strategy and minimizes the advantage of roles selected by your opponents.
What they have in common is that they are lean implementations of their genre with very reasonable play times and significant depth. Oh, and there are cards aand cardboard.
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Steve Duff
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The idea was not to bag on ED too much since it's not the ED topic, but since you asked, what I really disliked was the essentially fixed starting position. You get the same cards in your deck, and the same role cards available each game to build your deck with. If you like to Colonize, you can build the same deck every single game. If you want Warfare, likewise. Sure, some of the planets do different things, but it's nowhere near enough variability.

I wanted to like the game, and had planned to Kickstart it, but several plays of the game were enough to make me cancel my backing.
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Caleb
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ldsdbomber wrote:
ackmondual wrote:


1) You can count on those in the ED forum to give a more unbiased opinion on why that's better than SJ.




whistle
ninja


Thank you. Saved me the trouble.
 
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David Oldster
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I've played both, and bought San Juan.

RftG clearly has more depth to it, but this depth can come at the expense of a lot of initial confusion.

I can explain San Juan to anyone in five minutes and be off and playing.

Also, for reasons perhaps alluded to earlier, San Juan is just more social. I always have a lot more banter going on during San Juan than any RftG games. (And RftG banter around here tends to be like, "Wow, good choice of discarding your Scintillating Potato on the Alien Ramen Factory to chain into your Wobbling Rebels for three VP and nabbing the Most Sodium-Filled award." Not chit chat.)

Like others have said, it depends what you want, but for me San Juan fills a great niche, just light enough with some thought required to what you need to do. Sometimes I want something a bit meatier than Fluxx or Bang! to finish up a hot night of Goa or Lords of Waterdeep.
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Doobermite
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
If you like to Colonize, you can build the same deck every single game.

A person could but would most likely lose. I don't want to get into the greatness of Eminent Domain but there's a whole lot of depth because of the limited decks. Nowadays it seems like games have to have tons and tons of cards with text for variability. The genius of Eminent Domain is that it doesn't need it. You've got to be open to let your strategies shift throughout the game to see the brilliance.
 
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Len
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larienna wrote:
I am tempted to buy this game, but I am not sure. So I want people to give me reasons why I should not buy this game. I made my homeworks and looked at the negative comments. I accumulated these comments:

No Replay value, repetitive : many people have complained that after a lot of game, you only have a few strategic options which are always used in all games.

Come cards are abusive and broken or gives you the game (remove library in a 2 players): Some cards seems to be more powerful than other and could break the game.

People prefer race for the galaxy but I hate it (too complex):Most people prefer race for the galaxy, but I found that game way to complex. So san Juan could be better for me.


Role system is less fun and important in san juan: Others says the role system is less important and fun because some buildings can negate the advantage of a role.

Dominant strategy: There is not that many path to victory. So when you know the right combos, you should stick to it.

Not much decisions, the game plays you.: Some say that there is a lack of strategy and that you do not have much decisions during the game, the game plays for you.


Could there might be other games in the same style which are now better (excluding race for the galaxy)

Is there some variants that fix some of the bugs listed above? (ex: maybe setting some cards aside before the first reshuffle.




I enjoy SJ, RFtG, and GtR.

SJ is OK fun, and lighter, but I would not buy it to play as a two-player game. Once you figure out that production is far inferior to building in a 2p game, you see that you lose about half the game.

IMO, the box should state it is a 3-4p game.

Reason is that in 2p games, no one is forced to grab a role that supports production. So, if you depend upon production, you will fall behind someone going "purple".

SJ is best with 4 players.
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ackmondual
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Adverb wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
The short answer is: "you can probably go with a better game". Sure, it's not expensive, but if you keep buying these "not expensive" games, they will certainly add up in space and $$.


The only reason for you to get this game it seems is if you won't be able to get other games u like, and this is the lesser among the alternatives.


And FWIW, this game plays differently with 2p, 3p, and 4p that it's practically 3 separate games.

So, three games for the price of one!

That could also be applied to other games too... RftG plays differently at 2p (rules call for 2 action cards per player, and you can do double dev/settle too), 3p ("odd man out" if he's the only one doing Produce/Consume, or the only one mass building and has no horse in the P/C race), 4p ('evens' out any lopsidedness with the "odd man out"), and even 5p/6p (requires 1st and/or 2nd exp, but there's a higher chance that more phases will be executed, and possibl that ALL phases will take place)
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
Reason is that in 2p games, no one is forced to grab a role that supports production. So, if you depend upon production, you will fall behind someone going "purple".


In regular Puerto Rico, 2 player game is played by making the governor pick 2 roles and the other player pick 1 role. So it should solve the production problem.
 
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