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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: The Daybreak mini-expansion - Now in Beta phase rss

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Mindy G
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Yeah doing it after cards are put in but before revealed would make sense.
 
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Ryan West
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Jasperhawk wrote:
... flipping Adama's abilities the way Zarek's got flipped ...


This could be an interesting theme, come to think of it...

Roslin:
Skilled Politician — Whenever the President would draw a Quorum Card, instead examine two cards from the top of the Quorum deck. Put one into the Quorum hand and the other on the bottom of the deck.
Religious Visions — Once per game, when you would draw a Crisis Card, instead search the Crisis deck and choose a Crisis Card to resolve. If it lacks a jump icon, it gains one.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Eunomiac wrote:
Roslin:[...]
Religious Visions — Once per game, when you would draw a Crisis Card, instead search the Crisis deck and choose a Crisis Card to resolve. If it lacks a jump icon, it gains one.


So do you shuffle the deck, unburying the rejected crises from scouting, or do you wait half an hour while Roslin's player memorises the top couple of dozen crises? And how much is she allowed to say about the crises people buried?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it could use some polish...
 
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Mindy G
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Quote:
On further executions, no new Loyalty cards are drawn, but the new character may not use his once-per-game ability.


Since this has now come up in 53c, I have to say I dislike the guaranteed human thing. I understand the issue with the possible single Cylon, having been one in several vassal games and in a PBF, but I think a guaranteed human with no loyalty cards is too much, especially when if they had already used their OPG there would be no downside. (Not the case in 53c, but just mentioning it.)
 
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Ryan West
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I didn't even realize that rule—I was operating on the assumption that it was just unlikely that the second person to be executed would have drawn the buried YAAC card.

I do agree, though: Executions should be all bad for the team of whoever is being executed. There should never be a potential upside to killing a teammate (barring strange corner cases), and guaranteeing someone's Loyalty is a big upside!

Outside-the-Box suggestion ("it's where I live"): What about adding another Cylon card to the Loyalty deck after the second (or third) execution, in addition to the usual extra YANAC Card? Sure, that's unbalancing at first glance... but it would take three executions of three human players before it would trigger, so it's not as if they don't deserve it, while also giving executions more bite. And it would greatly mitigate the problem of the last card being a YAAC card (because, though there will be two in the Loyalty Deck after the third execution, both would have to be YAAC cards for it to be a one-Cylon game).

You could even add a different Loyalty Card entirely, instead of a YAAC Card: An "Embedded Agent" YAAC, who is on the Cylon team but does not have a Reveal power. I floated this awhile ago as a possible balancing mechanic, but it could work here.
 
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Mindy G
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Eunomiac wrote:
Outside-the-Box suggestion ("it's where I live"):


Does that mean the rest of us live inside-the-box? Am I the oriecat in the box? Am I dead?
 
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Pascal Gollin
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oriecat wrote:
Eunomiac wrote:
Outside-the-Box suggestion ("it's where I live"):


Does that mean the rest of us live inside-the-box? Am I the oriecat in the box? Am I dead?


Our curiosity kills the cat.
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Ryan West
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jpg87 wrote:
oriecat wrote:
Eunomiac wrote:
Outside-the-Box suggestion ("it's where I live"):


Does that mean the rest of us live inside-the-box? Am I the oriecat in the box? Am I dead?


Our curiosity kills the cat.

Our curiosity both did and did not kill the (orie)cat, depending upon whether you opened the radioactive-decay-triggered deathtrap we were keeping her in.

You didn't let the cat out of the radioactive-decay-triggered deathtrap, though, did you?

DID YOU?!?
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Ryan West
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rmsgrey wrote:
Eunomiac wrote:
Roslin:[...]
Religious Visions — Once per game, when you would draw a Crisis Card, instead search the Crisis deck and choose a Crisis Card to resolve. If it lacks a jump icon, it gains one.


So do you shuffle the deck, unburying the rejected crises from scouting, or do you wait half an hour while Roslin's player memorises the top couple of dozen crises? And how much is she allowed to say about the crises people buried?

Yeah, forgot to add "Shuffle" in there, probably necessary before the search too: I think it's fine that buried Crises are shuffled back as well—"all of this has happened before" and all that. Besides, the Crisis deck is what, 100+ cards?

Anyways, details are premature: I was mostly interested in the idea of this as a theme. I love how it worked to create interesting mirrors of Zarek and Adama, and wondered whether other characters could be "upgraded" in similar fashion. (Unfortunately, characters with OPG's based off of one-time events—Cally, Cain, Kat, even Tigh—obviously wouldn't work so well... another reason to hate abilities based on one-time events!)
 
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Mindy G
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Quote:
The Blackbird: Action: Once per game, destroy one Viper in the "Reserves" to either choose 1 space area on the main game board and remove all Cylon ships in that area OR look at the top 3 Crisis cards and then place them on the top or bottom of the Crisis deck in any order.


Should "remove" be changed to "destroy"? Why is it limited to cylon ships, shouldn't a cylon Chief be able to send the Blackbird into a Sector full of civs?
 
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Daniel Loke
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"Choose a space area. Destroy all ships in that space area."
 
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Mark L
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I forgot to tweak Racetrack's weakness.
 
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Gridash
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An idea for Adama's normal ability is that he gets to do another action after playing executive order on somebody (counts for only the first XO). Fits Command Authority nicely.

His OPG could be something like nullifying the action on a played card (skill cards, quorum cards, etc). Like a political prowess or treachery cards, etc. I was thinking about the show where he disregards alot of stuff that he doesn't like, regardless of the law or rank. Like the independant tribunal, the execution of Chief and Helo, etc. So he could disregard an arrest/execution order just as well or a presidential order where titles would change hands.

I've thought about Adama's OPG to give everybody leadership cards, but the problem is that its too pro-human. Adama needs something that could also be used (abused) if hes a cylon.
 
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Gridash
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Cally's OPG could be something like sending somebody in the same location to sickbay. The victim has to discard skill cards in order to not being killed. If the cummulative value of the cards (type doesn't matter) is below 5, that character is executed instead. This doesn't work while being in the brig location.

At least in this manner, you can protect yourself from a Cally attack and if she bides her time for another player to have a really low (or no) card amount, she can still gets her kill in.

She could also use her ability not to kill, but to bleed cards. Like first the victim has to discard cards through the OPG and if the victim is next to Cally, only 1 card can be drawn since the victim starts his turn in the sickbay location. Good for taking out both human players and suspected cylon players.
 
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Ryan West
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Gridash wrote:
An idea for Adama's normal ability is that he gets to do another action after playing executive order on somebody (counts for only the first XO). Fits Command Authority nicely.

I definitely think Executive Order is the key to Adama's OPT: He is the leader. My main focus has been on trying to find something that's helpful to Cylon Adama. How about:

"Whenever you play an Executive Order, if you are at "Command", you may first send the target character to any location except the "Brig". If you do, that character may not choose to move while resolving the Executive Order." (Cylon Adama can knock pilots out of vipers and send people to Sickbay; "Command" requirement is thematic, and gives players the ability to stop Cylon Adama by brigging him.)

OR (two similar variations)

"Action: Once per turn, if you are at "Command", discard an Executive Order Skill Card to activate up to two different Galactica locations."

"Action: Once per turn, if you are at a Galactica location, discard an Executive Order Skill Card to activate your current location twice."

(The "Galactica locations only" limit is thematic, and it also prevents too much insanity by knocking out some of the more easily-abused locations. Both of these powers also make him very appealing as a target for other players' XO's, which is indirectly advantageous to a Cylon Adama.)

An interesting aside: If XO is factored into Adama's OPT somehow, Daybreak would have three of the five "common" Skill Cards mentioned by name in character abilities (Tory: Consolidate Power; Chief: Repair), and a fourth referred to indirectly (Racetrack: Launch Scout).

And since I love cycles (it's the MtG player in me), I was compelled to find a character and an ability to work with Evasive Maneuvers.

My first thought was Starbuck, but then I remembered there's a pilot who really needs some help: Kat.

Born to Fly — At the end of any turn in which you played Evasive Maneuvers to re-roll an attack against your viper, draw 2 Piloting Skill Cards.

(I thought of puns on catlike reflexes and dog-fighting, but... yeah. I also had it at "draw 1 Piloting Skill Card", but I think that would be too weak: This ability can occur only once per turn, regardless of the EM's she plays, and she needs to be out front getting attacked by raiders for it to trigger.)
 
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My latest idea about Adama:

Commander of Galactica: On your turn after you activated "Weapons Control" or "Command" you can immediatly activate this location second time (limit once per turn).
//I wonder if making it worth a skill card discard, Executive Order probably

His OPG is vanilla one, but you have to take all cards on hand (this way it helps you to take Treachery or other cards as Cylon).

His weakness is vanilla one + "Airlock" location.
 
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Gridash
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Or taking Eunomiac's idea and changing it a bit towards

"Movement: If you are at "Command", discard an Executive Order Skill Card to activate a Galactica location."

So let him spend his movement instead of performing an action.
 
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Ryan West
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Gridash wrote:
"Movement: If you are at "Command", discard an Executive Order Skill Card to activate a Galactica location."

That's a much more elegant way to do it, certainly... but it is significantly less powerful. I really think Adama needs a buff more than any other character in the game---not because he's the weakest character, but because he should be one of the strongest.

Think of it this way: Imagine we're designing the BSG board game in a world where it never existed. If you could put only three characters in the "Tier 1, pushing the limits of balance" category, who would you choose?

For me, the choice is obvious: Roslin, Adama, and Apollo, in that order*. Two of those characters are already monsters, but Adama---the beating heart of Galactica---has always just been "meh".

For this reason, I think pushing the envelope with Adama's abilities is the direction to go in.

* Cain, Cavil and Zarek likely deserve Tier 1 OPT's and/or OPG's as well. But, their fatal flaws suggest they also deserve some of the harshest weaknesses, which would put them a hair beneath the Big Three I listed.
 
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Ryan West
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Oh, I totally forgot about Baltar! He should be up there too, but I'd probably put him into the "awesome, but with a harsh weakness" category along with Cain, Cavil and Zarek.
 
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Gridash
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I think Baltar is pretty strong already in his current state?
 
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Eunomiac wrote:
Gridash wrote:
"Movement: If you are at "Command", discard an Executive Order Skill Card to activate a Galactica location."

That's a much more elegant way to do it, certainly... but it is significantly less powerful. I really think Adama needs a buff more than any other character in the game---not because he's the weakest character, but because he should be one of the strongest.

Think of it this way: Imagine we're designing the BSG board game in a world where it never existed. If you could put only three characters in the "Tier 1, pushing the limits of balance" category, who would you choose?

For me, the choice is obvious: Roslin, Adama, and Apollo, in that order*. Two of those characters are already monsters, but Adama---the beating heart of Galactica---has always just been "meh".

For this reason, I think pushing the envelope with Adama's abilities is the direction to go in.

* Cain, Cavil and Zarek likely deserve Tier 1 OPT's and/or OPG's as well. But, their fatal flaws suggest they also deserve some of the harshest weaknesses, which would put them a hair beneath the Big Three I listed.


He basically gets to do a galactica activation action and an (fill in here whatever you like action). I think thats pretty strong, even as a cylon Adama. Granted he can't activate the brig because of his drawback. OPT abilities aren't supposed to be gamebreaking in the first place though.
 
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Mark L
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Adama has been changed.

I don't subscribe to the thematic balancing of characters, sorry. To me characters should be balanced only to lead to a better game. (Maybe FFG agrees with it, though, looking at Cain.)
 
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Gridash
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What is the reasoning behind Chief's OPT ability anyway? Feels like a nerf to me, not sure if that is what he deserves? Unless I'm missing some tactical context here.

FYI:
Maintenance Engineer: Once per turn, when a location you do not occupy is damaged, you may move to that location. (Do not pay ship movement costs.)

I had another question, but since its more general and less Daybreak related, I just made a different thread out of this:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10860021#10860021

I would love if repair cards could do the exact opposite as well: Destroy a location, that way you could go on a destroy spree right before revealing. If its considered too powerful, you could add a diceroll to it instead.
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Richard Dowdy
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Gridash wrote:
I would love if repair cards could do the exact opposite as well: Destroy a location, that way you could go on a destroy spree right before revealing. If its considered too powerful, you could add a diceroll to it instead.


That's a cool idea. You might want to word it so that it damages the location without sending characters located there to sickbay. Thematically you are using engineering skill to mess up the equipment, not blowing the whole place to smithereens like when it gets damaged by Basestar fire. Also you can get more of a destroy spree going, albeit with fewer casualties along the way.
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Cheza Moonmaiden
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Gridash wrote:
I would love if repair cards could do the exact opposite as well: Destroy a location, that way you could go on a destroy spree right before revealing. If its considered too powerful, you could add a diceroll to it instead.

That would rather be a "You're a cylon" loyalty card, stating that you can damage the location you're currently in/at (don't know the right version, sorry).

===========================

I have a different opinion on the changes made to the character abilities. You can either 'fix' some abilities a bit or rebuild the character in a more flavorful way.

An example:
Helena Cain has the 'Blind Jump' OPG, but she never ordered this when she didn't have to command a civilian fleet of 40,000 people and when she they were only a few seconds away from being destroyed. So does that ability make any sense for her? NO! It's contrary to her attitude to rather die fighting than to flee. (When she did, she couldn't fight)

There were two other characters who did a "blind jump" - named Kara Thrace and Laura Roslin. Kara should require no discussion here. Roslin ordered an ftl jump quite early in the tv serie, when a Raider had found the fleet. They left behind all the ships that weren't ready to enter lightspeed.
________

Cain also has a OPT ability that sounds quite reactive. But her character is the most strict and active - not so say proactive - character of the show. In addition, she'd chosen turture above killing.

But the same is true for Roslin as well. Whe they tortured Leoben, it was Roslin who decided to 'airlock' him. So who is worse?
________

In my opinion, Cain is the had the most strict command and she would have been the greatest addition to the show, if she would have survived a bit longer. (Imaging New Caprica, if Cain would have been in charge of the 'fleeing battlestars'!!!).

HELENA CAIN
OPT - Strict Control: Whenever you're forced to discard, you may choose another human character to discard instead. If you would draw treachery cards this way, the chosen character draws them instead.

OPG - Judge & Executioner: Action - Discard 3 cards and draw 3 treachery cards to execute another character who is in your current location.

FLAW - Ruthless: At the end of your turn, discard a skill card and draw 1 treachery card.


Now this is how I would like Cain to be. She would be feared by any other player in the group, since she is the one who really deserves the proactive executioner trait. If she is chosen as a character later in the game (after someone has died), she could really turn the tables (like she did in the tv serie).

In addition, I love it, when the drawback interacts with the benefit.

===========================

Another good example is Gajus Baltar. Many of our players pick him just because of his drawback... which is nicknamed: "Join the winning team".

In the tv show, it was obvious that he isn't a cylon, but a psychotic maniac. I'd rather expect him to be a sympathizer than a sleeper agent.

So, what really defines him is the fact that he is a coward, has visions and is by some means lucky or 'chosen'.

Only Gaius OPT seems to really fit, but it isn't powerful enough for this character and doesn't interact with all his other abilities. But when I look at Roslins abilities, they seem to be a perfect match:

GAIUS BALTAR
OPT - Illusive Visions: Whenever you draw a crisis card, draw two and choose one to resolve. Put the other one on either the top or the buttom of the crisis deck.

OPG - Mysterious Intuition: Before a skill check is made [crisis card or location], you may choose the result [Pass, Fail, Partial, Consequence] instead.

FLAW - Indecisive Coward: In order to activate a location, you must discard two cards.


This makes him the bad President he was in the tv serie. Rather than soften the drawback (as it is suggested for Roslin), I increased the power of the benefits. In addition, the drawback interacts with one part of the OPG (locations) and the OPT with the other half (the skill checks on crisis cards).

===========================

KARA THRACE
OPT - The Angel: When you would roll a dice, you may discard a skill card. Use the card's strength +2 as the result of the dice roll. (The result may be modified normally [i.e. with Strategic Planning, etc]).

OPG - Final Destiny: If you activate the FTL Control, you may risk 4 civilian ships to ignore any jump restrictions. Shuffle the destination deck and only draw a single destination card.

FLAW - Extreme Behaviour: Your maximu hand size [Skill cards AND quorum cards] is 5.


I like her OPT more than the original one, because Kara can now control the result of any scout roll, raider attack, centurion attack, FTL jump and crisis roll. So she becomes more versatile than the old character (with an OPT limited to a viper). In addition, the OPT makes her 'immune' to treachery cards (since she can be convert them as well). This fits better to Kara than to the mentally-unstable Kat. Her drawback makes her a bad Admiral or President (she really deserves that).

I nerfed the 'Blind Jump' a bit, as it requires her to be at the undamaged 'FTL Control' location to use it. On contrast, she can use it any time, even if the distance if above 6. And since a jump causes a dice roll to check if there are any losses, interact quite well with her OPT.

===========================

William Adama
OPT - Control: On your turn, once all cards have been added to a skill check, you may replace one card played into the skill check with one card in your hand.

OPG - Command Authority: Before resolving a skill check, you may draw 4 skill cards (of any type [including treachery]), and add any of them into the skill check. Put the rest into your hand.

FLAW - Considerate: You may not play more than one skill cards into skill checks.


Well, that's more or less Cally's advantage without her drawback. His drawback fits better than his original one ('can't activate the Admiral's Quarter'), because he sends multiple characters into the brig during the tv serie. In this version, it just becomes a bit more difficult, if he is the only one who plays cards into the check.

To compensate this drawback, he has the OPT to replace a card from a skill check, so he can basically replace a negative card with another positive card.

His OPG can easily decide the outcome of a skill check on it's own... and help on any super crisis, even if it's not his turn and gives him access to skill cards that weren't in his skill set. It makes it really difficult to either 'brig' or 'airlock' him and interacts nicely with his drawback (compensates) and his benefits (avoid over-shooting a skill check). Last but not least, he can either be quite immune to treachery cards (removing reckless events), or devastating (adding 4 treachery cards into one reckless skill check).

===========================

Tory Foster
OPT - Adaptable: Whenever you draw a crisis card, draw 1 skill card of your choice (of any type [including treachery]).

OPG - Backup Plan: After resolving a skill check, instead of discarding the used skill cards, draw them into your hand.

FLAW - Amoral: If you're the current player, you must choose the first option listed on any crisis card that says: Current player chooses.


It's Baltar's OPT attached to her original drawback. Since all 'Current player chooses' crisis cards include either a skill check as the first option, this fits even better with the choice to draw any skill card.

It also makes me happy to see that she is the character that would suffer most being in the brig. That feels 'right'. Her OPG isn't the best, but rather supports a long-term strategy.

===========================

Lee Adama
OPT - Fights for your Rights: After any player uses the action on a quorum card, you may a player. That player draws one skill card (must be from within your skill set).

OPG - Rebel: At the start of your turn, you may take any title [Admiral, President, CAG]. Return this title to it's original owner at end of your turn.

FLAW - Idealist: You can't contribute only one skill card into any skill check. [either none or 2+]


Surprisingly, he doesn't have any abilities that support piloting.... Well, he seems to be more interested in other things during the serie. In this way, his skill set is also different;
2 Leadership,
1 Tactics
2 Piloting // Politics

He was President for the shortest period, supported Mutiny against the Admiral, was CAG and Commander of the Pegasus. Quite a career.

But he was always the one who believed in the traditional system, with the laws, religions, etc. Lee is either lazy or over-committed. He completely lacks the considerate behaviour of his father. Hopefully, this version represents this well enough and also shows the differences between father and son.
 
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