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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: The Daybreak mini-expansion - Now in Beta phase rss

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Mindy G
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Played Adama with the new Inspirational Leader today in our Vassal game today. Kinda crazy. Play an XO to use a location, then XO the person there to use it twice. Of course our rolls sucked, so it didn't accomplish much.
 
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Gridash
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It seemed a bit OP to me, or at least the capacity of becoming OP in the future. Although Adama in the show was also OP.
 
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Mark L
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I'm unsure about it too. When I played with it F2F it wasn't that good because when I used it first turn it meant I was stuck on the AQ (lol) and sometimes there just wasn't anyone on a decent location. But I like how it solves Adama's problem - with a triple Leadership draw you regularly end up with multiple XOs in hand, which you never want. This gives him a way to use those excess XOs.
 
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Mindy G
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Oh just had a thought. You might want to add that you can't use it while in the Brig.
 
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Mark L
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Oh, of course.
 
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Mindy G
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What about he can only use it if he is Admiral?
 
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Mark L
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I'll keep it as is for now and see how it plays in a future VASSAL/F2F game.
 
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Mark L
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Clarified Adama's OPT to be unavailable from the Brig.
Cain can now discard a single Treachery for Intolerant.
Damage Galactica reveal draws 5 tokens again, but must damage Galactica.
 
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Sean B
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While thinking about this earlier with my friends we came up with a good compromise on Cally's OPG. She's unlikely ever to be chosen with Through the Walls, I think, and our usual Cally players agree.

The biggest issue with Cally's OPG is how completey unavoidable it is for the receiving party. We toyed with the idea of having the receiver be able to discard to avoid it, but then it was just a matter of timing for Cally. Which generally resulted in it never getting used.

So our current, and completely untested, idea is to have it be a die roll. On a 6 or higher, current player is sent to sickbay and forced to discard their hand rather than being executed. This way it can be planned, and Cally still maintains the ability to Calculate it after the fact. Thoughts?
 
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Gridash
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Personally, I'd like to have kept Cally's previous ability, but add a way to avoid it as well. Be executed, or discard a number of cards (or a cumulative strength value of cards) and get send to sickbay.
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Mark L
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Took Neil's suggestions on:
Buffing Blind Jump to cost only one civilian.
Adama's weakness now applies on his turn (but not if he's XOed)
Basestar Bridge nuke only forces Cylons to discard one card.

Chief's OPT improved.
Cally's OPG partially reverted.
Basestar Bridge now more limited (must be one on top and one on bottom)


This version is now considered final apart from the following:
Zarek
Cain
Adama
Gaeta
Anders
Chief
Cally
Basestar Bridge

Still accepting other suggestions, but good reasons please.
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Pascal Gollin
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Don't know if this came up before:

Billy's Drawback, "Your die rolls may not be modified".
Does this include attacks from Cylon Ships on Billy's turn?
Technically those rolls are made by the current player, so are Billy's.
But I think that is kind of unthematic.

And what would happend with EM's on piloted vipers then?
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Mark L
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Good points. Will change to "during an Action step" to solve problem.
 
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Pascal Gollin
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Then it would also not effect other die rolls on crises?

Also, it would not effect e.g. Armory rolls on an XO, since you only get an Action Step on your own turn...
 
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Mark L
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an Action step, not your Action step, so it still applies on XOs.

Do you think it should affect die rolls on Crises?
 
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Pascal Gollin
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Mh, don't know.
There it could fit..

I think V53b used it like that.

I don't think it's necessary, but I'm not familiar enough with Billy.

Die Rolls on his crises should only show up situational, so it's probably easier to just restrict to an action step, like you suggested.
 
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Sean B
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After playing D'Anna in V56, that Tre/Eng draw is a pain when infiltrating. Support the People is nearly worthless and it makes the opening draw confusing and weird, as well as limiting you to just those two colors for your bonus infiltration draw.

Could she perhaps have Leadership or Politics as a fixed draw, and then have her OPT reworded to allow her to replace that draw with any other color?
 
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Jasper Hawk
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l33tspaniard wrote:
After playing D'Anna in V56, that Tre/Eng draw is a pain when infiltrating. Support the People is nearly worthless and it makes the opening draw confusing and weird, as well as limiting you to just those two colors for your bonus infiltration draw.

Could she perhaps have Leadership or Politics as a fixed draw, and then have her OPT reworded to allow her to replace that draw with any other color?

Don't know if I put this in the geekmail I sent you, but my thought was to give her a Y/O draw, and change her drawback so that she can't draw more than one card of each Skill Type per turn. Forces her to draw Treachery while Infiltrating, which is a bonus, and keeps her from the 3-Politics draw that spurred the change to B/O. It's a little less thematic than her current drawback, though.
 
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Sean B
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We did discuss something along those lines. It isn't entirely unthematic, since D'Anna betrayed humanity AND cylons at every opportunity. You could call it "Treacherous Cylon" or "True Believer." Drawing Treachery at any point in the game makes humanity hesitant to XO an infiltrating leader, and while infiltrating it would be even worse. I think that makes her OPT as a free action and free card at the start of turn too good unless it replaces one card from her set instead of just giving her an extra card.
 
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Jasper Hawk
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l33tspaniard wrote:
We did discuss something along those lines. It isn't entirely unthematic, since D'Anna betrayed humanity AND cylons at every opportunity. You could call it "Treacherous Cylon" or "True Believer." Drawing Treachery at any point in the game makes humanity hesitant to XO an infiltrating leader, and while infiltrating it would be even worse. I think that makes her OPT as a free action and free card at the start of turn too good unless it replaces one card from her set instead of just giving her an extra card.

Oh, yeah, I wasn't suggesting she get more than one card as part of her basic draw. So while a Cylon, she draws either Politics or Treachery at the start of her turn, then draws any other color for Journalism. While Infiltrating, she must draw Politics and Treachery at the start of her turn, and then one of the other four for Journalism. It also limits her draw on her OPG, Human Fleet, Support (which again is always Y+O), Consolidate, etc.
 
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Sean B
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Two colors still feels really limiting. She could have her old Pol/Eng draw, but have a new drawback that requires her to draw treachery in place of one card whenever she draws cards within her skill set. Essentially it gives her 1 Tre, 1 Pol/Eng but doesn't allow her to draw 3 Tre while infiltrating since the treachery draw is part of her drawback rather than being in her skill set.

I also like the fact that it continues to be a real drawback by limiting her on StP and other within skill set draws. Limiting all draws might be a bit much when Cylon Leaders already don't have enough cards, though.
 
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Mark L
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Will think about it. D'Anna's weakness hasn't actually ever mattered in any game thus far but that might be due to how un-bloodthirsty the humans have been in those games...
 
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Sean B
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It mattered somewhat in v56, as it made me extremely hesitant to exfilrate (even though I was stuck playing support due to some unlucky rolls). But it was certainly not as noticeable as the other CL drawbacks.
 
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Sam Jar
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First let me tell you that's a very interesting piece of work you submitted, with a nice effort made to rebalance the game : i've recently started a reflection to make a completly house-ruled version of this game, and i share a lot of your conviction about What need to be changed and Why (although i often have different ideas on How to do it...).

Overall, if i had only one criticism to make, it would be that your changes tend to be too complex : i've seen this too often when friends came up with customized version of their boardgame : while they did add a lot of logical and balanced elements to the game, it made the game much longer and heavier, and ultimately, extremly boring to play. So, for everyone sake, please try to keep things as simple as possible.

Now, let's cut the small talk, and make a more detailed review of your ruleset :

Characters :
i don't have the time for a full review of this section right now, so i'll just stick with general comments :
_ avoid power requiring a specific card to activate : those can be very frustrating to play.
_ Adama, Cain, Zarek and the Chief should be think more carefully : for now, the original versions of these characters are better (more on that later)
_ i think several characters deserve a skillset change (namely : Cain, Adama, Chief, Boomer, Dee...)
_ additionnal characters seems too complex or weird for me...especially Billy : i'm convinced you can do a great character without the "additionnal Quorum hand" thing...


Quorum cards changes :

Assign VP : a bit toog good : i'd prefer something like :
"This player is now next highest in the Presidential Line of Succession. In addition, if another player is targeted by Administration, increase the difficulty by 2 ..."
(this is Battlestar Galactica, not North Korea !)

Assign Arbitrator / Accpet Prophecy / Presidential Order : nice changes

Probation : sure this card is weak, but it has some potential. So why not let the President look at the cards played by the player under probation AND :
_ discard some (or all) of these cards (more interesting if playing with blind discard)
_ force the player under probation to take some (or all) of his cards back
_ take some (or all) of these cards for himself (my favorite)

Other Quorum cards posible tweaks:
Inspirationnal Speech : extremly frustrating card : spend an Action, nothing happens...
ideally, i'd remove 2 of those, and add 1-2 card that raise Morale without any dice roll involved !
(note : the same problem occcurs with Food rationning, but this issue is less problematic thanks to the cards Unsavory Connection & Enact Production quotas).
Alternatively, just make inspirationnal speech (and Food rationning) work on 5+ instead of 6+ : since there are less Strategic Planning available with expansions, it seems fair..

Presidential pardon : a second presidential pardon in the deck wouldn't hurt....

Execute Prisonner : weak (in our group, we call it "Presidential pardon with malus") : if you don't increase penalty for executions, then consider adding a small bonus (President draw X card ? President draw 1 Quorum card ? President may take X cards in the prisonner hand before the execution ? etc...)

Destinations :
Cylon ambush : while the original was way too soft, this one seems just a bit too harsh...

Derelitic Basestar : too weird : remove the "do X at the start of Admiral next turn" thing (that event may never occur !)
ex : "-1 fuel. Place a basestar in front of Galactica and two civilian ships behind Galactica. Give the basestar the Structural Damage token (the one giving +2 to hit) and increase the Pursuit track"

Skill cards :
Protect the Fleet : unnecessary change

Full throttle / Roll the Hard Six : first : it's (again) unnecessary complicated : why not simply make it one normal (ie : modifiable) roll ?
Second : since you're adding a "Reckless" red card (nice idea) : why not make it a card that help you pass the test (like every other "Reckless" skill cards), instead of making a weird and unqiue effect ? Pilots are often extremely weak when it comes to in skill test, so a small bonus in that area would be great....

So, what about a card like, for example :
"Decoy" (or maybe "Civilian contribution", or "Bait", or anything else) :
Reckless
Ignore the highest negative card in this skill test

(OR : ignore 0 card ability in this skill test)
(OR : for each space sector with at least one Civilian ship, reduce the difficulty of this test by one)


Political Prowess : obviously need a nerf, but not that one. The only good thing with this card is that it allows player to get out of the Brig (IMO : it's too hard to get out of jail, and too many crisis can send you in...) : with your change, you nerf more this use than any other : i think that's a shame...

alterantive : "Play after cards from a skill check triggerred by a location have been revealed : you may add up to 2 Skill Cards from your hand into the check ."
(yes, that more or less your original submission for Zarek's OPG , minus the "cards count double" which seems OP : i don't think Zarek should have it anyway : he's better wiith his old OPT anyway...)

Scout for Fuel : awful change : there is nothing more frustrating than doing an action, and seeing "nothing happens" as a result (which already happens too often in the game : Centurions, Inspirationnal Speech...)
So, if you think this card is too good, just make it a 5+ instead of 4+, period.

Best of the Best : sure need a boost, but it's again unnecessary complicated : make it simple, like :
"Action : roll a die, chose as many raiders on the main board and destroy them."
(no need to be in space, no need to target a specific area...)


Treachery : Love the idea of everyone drawing one treachery at the start and during sleeper phase is interesting ... however, discarding treachery into destiny is a dangerous idea...

Broadcast Location : does that effect come on top of the Basestar, or does it simply replace it ?
Human Weakness : seems too powerful, i'd prefer "reduce the highest ressource except Population"
Sabotage : with your variant, you should remove this card : double penalty for discarding treachery is quite rough...



Locations :
Administration : yay for drawing one Quorum card, nay for the rest :
_ difficulty 8 is too high
_ reduced difficulty for electing someone else : unnecessary : targeting someone else is already much easier, since you have at least 1 guaranted support ! Besides, i am afraid of some consequences on the meta-game : with this rule, targeting yourself is obviously a cylon action...

Weapon control : obviously need a small boost, but i'd prefer something simpler (like "if you roll 8 , get a second shot in the same space sector", or "you may reroll 1s"...).
note : i really think Heavy Raider/Centurions should be hit on 6+ by default

Research lab : currently testing something similar (discard 1 card, draw 2 Blue OR 2 Purple), and i'm not satisfied with it : helps player improving they're hand too easily. here is what we're gonna test next : "draw 2 Engineering or 2 Tactics, then discard one" .

Human Fleet : interesting change

Basestar bridge : nice effort...


Other potential changes :
Brig : the more i think about it, the more i'd like to reduce the difficulty of this test, even by if it's just by one.

Engine room : add this : "then roll a die, if X or less, damage Pegasus" (or "X or more" if you're nasty...)

Admiral's Quarter : let's rename it Martial Court (seeing Adama unable to activate his own quarters just drive me nuts)


Misc :
Pegasus destruction : Yeah !

Civilian ships : seems logical and legitimate, so why not ?

Executions : i prefer another simple variant : dead humans come back with a randomly selected character (you may allow them to draw 2 random characters and pick one if you're a nice person).
Of course, i'd like to increase penalty for executed cylon as well...

Loyalty cards after executions : for me, just drawing 2 Loyalty cards (while adding 2 YANAC to the deck) after each death is more interesting : there are less certitudes... (but more Personnal goals)

Last card is a "You are a Cylon" : i think allowing the cylon to reduce Fuel is too good, especially if you play with Personnal goals. Excepet for that, i think it's a good idea.

Cylon reveals : Yeah !

Additionnal change :
Centurions : i really think Centurions should be severly nerfed, especiallly if using CFB : centurions are more frequent, while humans have less "spare" Action to deal with them, and less Strategic Planning (due to deck dilution) ... and it's so easy for cylon to advance centurios...

So, the very least you could do is to make them easier to hit : 6-8 by default is a minimum.
(ideally, i'd like to make Centurion less "binary", with something like, for example :
7-8 : destroy one Centurion ;
4-6 : push back one Centurion by one square ;
1-2 : get sent to Sickbay)
 
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Pascal Gollin
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Regarding recent update:

- Reasoning for Gaeta doesn't fit his update
- Gaeta's new FTL Operator: I think it's too strong! It's a deeper scout, which can be horribly effective both as a human and a cylon. Doesn't fit to his not-too-bad drawback
- I liked Zarek's OPG (okay, I may be V53a biased Why did you change it?
- You missed Billy's "during an action step" clarification
 
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