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Subject: Should I get Indonesia or Brass? rss

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Nate S
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Thunkd wrote:
Not to derail the topic but duplicate bridge is played with set hands, and every team is scored against all the other players who played the exact same hands. So a lot of the luck element that disguises skill vs luck is removed.

The "fairness" comment was in comparison to, say, rubber bridge.

That said, I've played quite a bit of duplicate bridge. And with respect to the topic at hand, being scored against other partnerships who played the same hand doesn't significantly alter the nature of the skills required to play the game. The bidding and play of any given deal is still about doing the best you can under randomized conditions. Putting aside second-order effects related to specific scoring systems (e.g. stretching for overtricks at match points), duplicate bridge isn't a less random game with respect to strategy; it just has less random/more fair scoring.
 
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J C Lawrence
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ghorsche wrote:
If you're making a statement of personal preference rather than an objective value judgment, hey, I guess that's fine. Presumably you are uninterested in, say, poker or bridge as well... also built on foundations of randomization that are fundamental to their skill-based nature.


Yes.

Quote:
FWIW Brass is much more "fair" than...


I also have little interest in games being fair, as I see the progression of any competitive game being to make the game as maximally unfair as possible, with the game (hopefully) ending as soon as the state of maximum unfairness has been achieved: one player wins and everyone else loses. As such my questions aren't around equality of opportunity, but the requirements of victory.
 
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Martins Livens
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ghorsche wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
Not to derail the topic but duplicate bridge is played with set hands, and every team is scored against all the other players who played the exact same hands. So a lot of the luck element that disguises skill vs luck is removed.

The "fairness" comment was in comparison to, say, rubber bridge.

That said, I've played quite a bit of duplicate bridge. And with respect to the topic at hand, being scored against other partnerships who played the same hand doesn't significantly alter the nature of the skills required to play the game. The bidding and play of any given deal is still about doing the best you can under randomized conditions. Putting aside second-order effects related to specific scoring systems (e.g. stretching for overtricks at match points), duplicate bridge isn't a less random game with respect to strategy; it just has less random/more fair scoring.


Agree, there is shuffled cards => random challenges.
Significant skill required in duplicate bridge not mentioned comes from fact that every game start without points under line making bidding system applicable every deal (in other words, preparation is more important).
 
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Michael Ink
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How does Indonesia compare with Genoa? Bidding on all the possible moves to stores/ actions, etc. This kind of sounds like Genoa meets Aquire. Does this sound right?
 
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Clyde W
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They are very different games. Two of my favorites, in any case!
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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Genoa has a much greater luck element, and also a much greater trading element. Most of the Indonesia trading is with the game - you sell products to the market, you have to choose ships but there's no pricing or bidding allowed on that part of it. The only luck in Indonesia comes from what city cards you get.

It's also more fiddly than either Acquire or Genoa, and it is much longer. I would rather play Indonesia than Genoa mostly because I don't enjoy the luck aspects as much - I like other players to beat me, not card draws, etc.

If you want negotiation, go with Genoa.
 
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Michael Ink
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I LOVE negotiations and bidding in my econ games. I also rarely see the dice in Genoa hurt you because you can always bid on someone elses turn or charge extra on your turns. In Acquire, your luck is like luck in Scrabble, impactful, but the better player will almost always win. Sounds like I would prefer what I have already. Thanks!
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
mbmbmbmbmb
Inkwan wrote:
I LOVE negotiations and bidding in my econ games. I also rarely see the dice in Genoa hurt you because you can always bid on someone elses turn or charge extra on your turns. In Acquire, your luck is like luck in Scrabble, impactful, but the better player will almost always win. Sounds like I would prefer what I have already. Thanks!


I think so too, though I would recommend you find someone who already owns it and try it anyway.
 
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Steve Carey
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VanVeen wrote:
Indonesia is rare and hard to get, but DOES get reprinted every few years.


I knew that Antiquity had been reprinted several times, but was unaware that Indonesia had been reprinted.
 
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