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Subject: OBG 93: The Game Remains the Same rss

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Brian Counter
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First, I rather enjoyed the episode. Giles is great, yet I rather enjoyed Cyrus' sense of humor on this one. Have him on again...

Also, I just want to go on record in saying that when I sent my file to Tom for DT, that was over a week ago, so any similarities for Worst Games as said by myself and what Don said about the same game in this episode are *coincidental*. Get outta my head, Don! I did not 'borrow' this idea. 8P

On Merchants & Marauders, I like the game as you guys do, but my one beef with it is that it can be really unforgiving if you try the straight shipping route because your captain is great at that but stinks at pirating. If you build up your ship, have a lot of booty, and have some random event that leaves you vulnerable (and I typically love the random), you can get handily taken down by a pirate player, frustratingly hard to recover from. Still a good game overall though.
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Adam Carter
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heymondo wrote:
I rather enjoyed Cyrus' sense of humor on this one. Have him on again...


I had the exact opposite reaction to Cyrus and ended up skipping the main segment not long after his tirade on his wife's Blokus obsession.
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Aaron White
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I'm still a new listener, but I did enjoy your last podcast so much that I went back and listened to the past seven or eight. I give you that sample size of what I've heard for a reference point because I just did not enjoy this episode nearly as much as the others. It was very obvious that Don was frustrated at the tangents, and as a listener I picked up on that and was frustrated too. I like Cyrus' personality and he sounds like a great guy to game with, but I think that the amount of time off-topic really drug you all down. It's a shame, really, because the main topic of this episode is a fantastic one. Would have liked to had more discussion and less personal chatter - that's all.

That being said, now for the praise! Thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing up Merchants & Marauders. As a Navy guy, anything with ship combat and pirates is right in my wheelhouse. I also have just recently begun making my gaming into a more serious hobby so I'm always learning about new games to try. After the episode, I watched Tom's Dice Tower review of this game and it skyrocketed to the top of my Must Play list. For that alone, the episode was a success. thumbsup
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Donald Dennis
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heymondo wrote:
First, I rather enjoyed the episode. Giles is great, yet I rather enjoyed Cyrus' sense of humor on this one. Have him on again...
If you insist!

heymondo wrote:
Also, I just want to go on record in saying that when I sent my file to Tom for DT, that was over a week ago, so any similarities for Worst Games as said by myself and what Don said about the same game in this episode are *coincidental*. Get outta my head, Don! I did not 'borrow' this idea. 8P

Which game? I sometimes phase out when listening to the Dice Tower, it's a big show and I have a long work day. Besides, I choose to look at us having the same opinion as validation of just how clever we are, not as a bad thing.

heymondo wrote:
On Merchants & Marauders, I like the game as you guys do, but my one beef with it is that it can be really unforgiving if you try the straight shipping route because your captain is great at that but stinks at pirating. If you build up your ship, have a lot of booty, and have some random event that leaves you vulnerable (and I typically love the random), you can get handily taken down by a pirate player, frustratingly hard to recover from. Still a good game overall though.


Yeah, it has a fairly large push your luck element, but most people with complaints tend not to see it in that light. This may be because the risk isn't evenly distributed so victory isn't always from excellent play, but could be because of luck. And that's a lot of luck based on length of play.
 
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Donald Dennis
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acarter wrote:
heymondo wrote:
I rather enjoyed Cyrus' sense of humor on this one. Have him on again...


I had the exact opposite reaction to Cyrus and ended up skipping the main segment not long after his tirade on his wife's Blokus obsession.


As much as I would like to blame Cyrus for that I have to say that it was at least related to the topic. And if it was too much of a tangent Erik could have cut it and put it in the out takes. Or failing that, as the primary host I could have just moved things along. Instead, consider it as a valuable warning against playing the same game over and over and over again.
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Brian McCarty
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How about FITS? It uses some of the same pieces as Blokus.

Brian
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Brian Counter
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Walsfeo wrote:
Which game? I sometimes phase out when listening to the Dice Tower, it's a big show and I have a long work day. Besides, I choose to look at us having the same opinion as validation of just how clever we are, not as a bad thing.


Just having more fun here. I don't see it as bad either; it just made me laugh when I heard you waxing on Monopoly. I just thought it was funny when you guys were joking last episode on the Cult of the Old thing as being borrowed from you guys as well as other things on DT, that in the very next episode you talked about Monopoly keeping people from gaming.

Well, when I turned in my 30-second bit to Tom last week for an upcoming DT episode on Worst Games, I suggested Monopoly and basic Risk as the worst, and it sounds much like what you said on Monopoly in this episode, hence the 'get outta my head' line.

When we were growing up, we played Monopoly/Risk because that's what we had, but I genuinely think that the horrid too-long/in-fighting Monopoly adds a a fairly negative filter to how many people perceive board games as they leave youth, and they may never want to pick up games much as they get older because of games like Monopoly.
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Adam Carter
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Walsfeo wrote:

As much as I would like to blame Cyrus for that I have to say that it was at least related to the topic. And if it was too much of a tangent Erik could have cut it and put it in the out takes. Or failing that, as the primary host I could have just moved things along. Instead, consider it as a valuable warning against playing the same game over and over and over again.


It's not so much that particular issue, but like Aaron said, it's more a problem of the overall flow. Cyrus has a very powerful personality which tends to drive you and Erik to the sidelines. I listen to OBG in order to hear the Mean Man and Cool Cat of podcasting. As your role diminishes in any given podcast, so does my interest.
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Malachi Brown
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I listened to the end of this episode this morning and I just wanted to point out that the scoring rules for Samurai were a little misrepresented. You don't just toss out the thing you have the most of. You have to have more of one thing than anyone else to be eligible to win, the you toss that out and compare your second-most thing (unless someone has the most of two things, then they just win).

Quote:
Scoring and determining the winner
When the game ends, all players remove their screens and count the number of figures of each type.
If any player has captured the most figures of 2 or 3 types, he is the winner!
If there is no immediate winner, all players who have captured the most (ties for the most do not count) of one type of figure are eligible to win; players with no "most" cannot win.
Players with the most of a figure set aside those figures and count the number of other figures they captured. The player with the most other figures is the winner!
If there is still a tie, the players count all their captured figures; the player with the most is the winner!
If there is still a tie, the tying players share the victory.
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Frank Feldmann
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I get it, but that's a lot more complicated to explain!
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Donald Dennis
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Yeah, I just played it again on Tuesday, and you are correct. That's what I get for trusting a drummer.


Malachi wrote:
I listened to the end of this episode this morning and I just wanted to point out that the scoring rules for Samurai were a little misrepresented. You don't just toss out the thing you have the most of. You have to have more of one thing than anyone else to be eligible to win, the you toss that out and compare your second-most thing (unless someone has the most of two things, then they just win).
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Eric Hansen
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I haven't read the past discussion yet, so I'm just giving my thoughts on the episode. I liked it a lot because this has been a deal with my group. We've played BSG, Merchants and Marauders, Cosmic Encounter, and lately Arkham Horror, almost exclusively for about a year. We've played other games, but these are clearly mainstays. Money has also been an issue, as well as Z-Man changing hands (Like Giles, I was a volunteer for them prior to the deal and was paid in games), so I've had to stick to my collection and ignore all new releases.

I think expansions can do a great deal to change up the game, but I don't like overhauling the game too much. I like the small box expansions for Arkham Horror and how they re-flavor the game. However, I am not as interested in Innsmouth and Dunwich, etc. I also like the extra races Cosmic Encounter expansions because they merely build on what's already there without changing anything. I would like to get more tracks for Formula D. I have all expansions for BSG, but I don't expect to play much more than Cylon base star board, Pegasus board, extra characters, sympathetic Cylon, Cylon Leaders, and I've boxed/bagged my game up so this is the way it's played. I might try the Ionian Nebula and New Caprica at some point, but not now. I like the 8 + one more jump = human win. Anything more sounds like added complexity I don't want to deal with.

Good reviews too. It's always nice to hear the opinion that the Marauders have an advantage over the Merchants in M&M. I've won both ways, so I don't think there's a skew other than pirate is fast but risky and merchant is slower but surer, but I've heard more people say the Merchants have it easier. Personally, a mix is the best way to go. Assess the situation, and act accordingly. Play to your captain's strengths. It's a very fun game, and I agree it's as close to Sid Meier's Pirates! The Board Game as we'll ever get.
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Erik Dewey
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Walsfeo wrote:
Yeah, I just played it again on Tuesday, and you are correct. That's what I get for trusting a drummer.


Wow. You had to go there. angry
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Julian Cullop
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As always I enjoyed this episode, there was a lot that was incidentally interesting. Replayability is a difficult concept to nail however. Obviously there are some games which are so bad that you would never want to replay them. However not all games which perhaps you would not want to replay are necessarily bad.

There are some games which strike me as similar to reading a book, historical wargames would be one such category. You play them once or twice often with great pleasure but you don't want to 'read'them again and again.

A game which I very much want to give a try is Eclipse but when I look at that game I really can't imagine myself wanting to play a lot (that is a personal thing, not a criticism of Eclipse fans). Exploring that personal preference, it strikes me that if a game has a lot of mechanisms and is in one sense of the word 'deep'then it is something I might throw myself into but not something I'd want to keep going back to. On the other hand a game which is comparatively light like The Resistance is something I'm always happy to play
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Mike Cooper
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Ayrk wrote:
Walsfeo wrote:
Yeah, I just played it again on Tuesday, and you are correct. That's what I get for trusting a drummer.


Wow. You had to go there. angry


Now I have to tell my drummer joke.

Q: How can you tell when there's a drummer at the door?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
A: The knocking keeps getting faster.
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Ted Duby
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Donald,

Please keep Cyrus away from the Nitrous Oxide next time he is on...

shake

 
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Erik Dewey
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Thosw wrote:
Ayrk wrote:
Walsfeo wrote:
Yeah, I just played it again on Tuesday, and you are correct. That's what I get for trusting a drummer.


Wow. You had to go there. angry


Now I have to tell my drummer joke.

Q: How can you tell when there's a drummer at the door?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
A: The knocking keeps getting faster.


Heh. That was one of the better one's I've heard. Definitely better than how do you tell if the stage is level.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The drool comes out of both sides of the drummer's mouth.


I always thought if I got business cards for drumming, the tag line would be "A drummer who can keep time and is on time."

I figured that would differentiate me from others.
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Donald Dennis
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MajorOracle wrote:
Please keep Cyrus away from the Nitrous Oxide next time he is on...
Well, we thought since I'd been on mellowing pain-killers, that having a hyper speed-talker would help give the show a bit more engergy. Too much you think?
 
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