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Subject: Can we get an official ruling about pawn placement after a punt has docked? rss

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Chris Wood
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I've been reading through the rules section on here, and I'm getting about 50% of people saying that you cannot place a pawn in a vacant space on a dock or shipyard that already has a punt in it. 50% say you can.

What's more, some people say you can place a pawn on a punt that already has entered the shipyard or docks.

So I would like an official ruling on this, once and for all. Can someone even contact the designer and find out from him? He hasn't been on BGG since 2007, and there is no email.

I really want to figure this out so I can play the game as it was originally intended. Thanks!!!!

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Deb Wentworth
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Chris, the designer died several years ago, sadly.
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Chris Wood
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surprise I'm such an ass
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Brent Wenerstrom
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debwentworth wrote:
Chris, the designer died several years ago, sadly.


Still deserves a reprint in his honor.
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Steve Duff
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Myoman wrote:
I've been reading through the rules section on here, and I'm getting about 50% of people saying that you cannot place a pawn in a vacant space on a dock or shipyard that already has a punt in it. 50% say you can.

What's more, some people say you can place a pawn on a punt that already has entered the shipyard or docks.

I really want to figure this out so I can play the game as it was originally intended. Thanks!!!!


Personally, I think the rules are pretty damn obvious on this one. The rules keep repeating the word "risk". It's a *required* element in placing. It's the entire point of the game.

Allowing players to put pawns on spaces that have already finished and guarantee scoring is just silly. They've arrived, it's too late.

Quote:
WHERE TO PLACE ACCOMPLICES?
Wares (on board the punts):
The risk of this action: if the chosen punt does not reach the destination port, there is no profit to share, and the player gets no return on his accomplice investment.

Port and shipyard spaces:
The risk of this action: if no punt reaches the chosen port, the player gets no return on his accomplice investment.

Pirate spaces:
The risk of this action: if no punt reaches space 13, the player gets no return on his accomplice investment.

Pilot spaces:
The risk of this action: the exercised influence does not achieve the desired goal.

Insurance:
The risk of this action: for each punt that lands at the wharf, the insurance agent must pay the repair cost. In addition, the insurance agent takes over the profit disbursement to accomplices on those spaces
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Chris Wood
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It really looks like the risk implies not being able to gain money if nothing reaches where you placed the pawn, i.e. if you placed a pawn in the docks and they all the punts go to the shipyard. I see nothing in that quote that shows me if you can place pawns after the arrive in an area. The rules say specifically any available space, but you just cant be sure, especially when playing it.
 
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Deb Wentworth
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Chris, I took a look at the German version of the rules and found this section:

Hafen- und Werftfelder:
An jedem Hafen- und jedem Werftfeld befindet sich ein orangefarbenes Einsatzfeld für einen Komplizen. Wer dort einen Komplizen platziert, mietet dieses Feld. Er stellt seinen Komplizen auf einem beliebigen unbesetzten Einsatzfeld ab. Er darf dies auch dann tun, wenn bereits ein Kahn auf diesem Hafen- oder Werftfeld abgestellt wurde. Jeder Spieler kann im Verlauf der Einsatzrunden an mehreren verschiedenen Hafen- und/oder Werftfeldern einen Komplizen abstellen.


The sentence I bolded, which is not in the English version of the rules, seems to say that you can place a worker there, even if a ship is already docked there. I have to say, this came as a big surprise to me. I've never played this way, and it's counter-intuitive to me to do so.

But there it is, in black and white. (Actually, black and aqua.)
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Rick Keuler
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From another rule discussion:
caesarbgg wrote:
I don't quite understand the point of this discussion. The rules seem to be quite clear about these issues.

From the german rulebook:

1.Concerning punts
German rules wrote:
Auf Kähne, die bereits den Hafen erreicht haben, darf nicht gesetzt werden.

Translated: It is not allowed to place an accomplice on punts that have already reached the dock.

2. Concerning dock and shipyard fields
German rules wrote:
Er darf dies auch dann tun, wennbereits ein Kahn auf diesem Hafen- oder Werftfeld abgestellt wurde.

Translated: A player may place on such a field, even when there is already a punt on the corresponding dock or shipyard field.

I think there are no ambiguities wahtsoever.


Linkity: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/66015/docked-punts
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Chris Wood
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That tears it then. Thanks; I will play this way from now on!
 
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Steve Duff
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Personally, I'd still go with what the author intended, rather than a rule that was put in because the publisher didn't want to explain something.

Re: Question about accomplice placement.

bennodelonge wrote:
In my original rules, it was forbidden to get on ships that have already reached the harbour. After some discussions, we dropped this, mostly in order to have simpler rules and less exceptions. But with the story of the game, the original version is better. Feel free to change this rule if you like.
Greetings
Benno
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Deb Wentworth
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Interesting discovery! OK, I'm back to how I've always played it. Makes more sense to me that way.

 
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Brent Wenerstrom
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This is how we play based on this very quote.

UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Personally, I'd still go with what the author intended, rather than a rule that was put in because the publisher didn't want to explain something.

Re: Question about accomplice placement.

bennodelonge wrote:
In my original rules, it was forbidden to get on ships that have already reached the harbour. After some discussions, we dropped this, mostly in order to have simpler rules and less exceptions. But with the story of the game, the original version is better. Feel free to change this rule if you like.
Greetings
Benno
 
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Alejandro Galaviz
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...can you bet on a Horse after the race is over? No.
 
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Simon Barnes
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
...can you bet on a Horse after the race is over? No.


Have you never seen The Sting.. it's a cracking film.
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Adrian Iordache
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Personally, I'd still go with what the author intended, rather than a rule that was put in because the publisher didn't want to explain something.

Re: Question about accomplice placement.

bennodelonge wrote:
In my original rules, it was forbidden to get on ships that have already reached the harbour. After some discussions, we dropped this, mostly in order to have simpler rules and less exceptions. But with the story of the game, the original version is better. Feel free to change this rule if you like.
Greetings
Benno


I'm preparing for my first game of Manila, so I'm reading the whole Rules forum.
This question appears several times.

I believe there's no conflict between the designer's original rule and the German rulebook.

As stated by the author, it was forbidden to get on ships that have already reached the harbour (which is compliant with German rulebook). But it is not explicitly forbidden by the author to get on harbour (wharf/port/docks) or shipyard spots if a ship is already there. So we could assume the German rules follow the original designer's rules.
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Scott Nelson
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The idea of jumping on a punt midstream is okay because of it "coming to port" sort of. The idea of jumping on a punt after it is docked, is okay, but I think you would get nothing because in reality, the punt docked and that bet is off the table at that point. If you immediately gave out the rewards of such things instead of waiting for the end of the round, it would seem clearer. To streamline the whole process, it appears that waiting till everything was done, was simpler, though less thematic in the long run and more rules questions, so I don't know if that is streamlined at all
 
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