$10.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

The Phantom League» Forums » General

Subject: I've been really interested in this game, but... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm really concerned that I'm going to need the Mostly Harmless expansion to make the game as good as it should have been when it was released. This puts it at a £60 purchase - which is a heck of a whack for a game that should really cost £40 for the actual game that you end up with taking into account the few added components of the expansion.

Can anybody convince me to shell out for the game plus expansion, or suggest a way that I can play the "patched" base game without having to shell out the additional £25 for the expansion that I shouldn't need?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:
I'm really concerned that I'm going to need the Mostly Harmless expansion to make the game as good as it should have been when it was released. This puts it at a £60 purchase - which is a heck of a whack for a game that should really cost £40 for the actual game that you end up with taking into account the few added components of the expansion.

Can anybody convince me to shell out for the game plus expansion, or suggest a way that I can play the "patched" base game without having to shell out the additional £25 for the expansion that I shouldn't need?


You are correct that it would have been nice to include everything in the original Phantom League package. Especially the rulebook in the original release was bad and for that I am sorry. The rulebook (corrected) is available right here in BGG.

BUT Mostly Harmless provides much, much more than just new rulebook.
If you insist on playing the game with just the base game, that IS possible with just the new rulebook, but you'll have far less variability as you'll lack captains, ships and cards on every deck.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Eridis wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I'm really concerned that I'm going to need the Mostly Harmless expansion to make the game as good as it should have been when it was released. This puts it at a £60 purchase - which is a heck of a whack for a game that should really cost £40 for the actual game that you end up with taking into account the few added components of the expansion.

Can anybody convince me to shell out for the game plus expansion, or suggest a way that I can play the "patched" base game without having to shell out the additional £25 for the expansion that I shouldn't need?


You are correct that it would have been nice to include everything in the original Phantom League package. Especially the rulebook in the original release was bad and for that I am sorry. The rulebook (corrected) is available right here in BGG.

BUT Mostly Harmless provides much, much more than just new rulebook.
If you insist on playing the game with just the base game, that IS possible with just the new rulebook, but you'll have far less variability as you'll lack captains, ships and cards on every deck.

Timo, thank you for responding to me; I appreciate that a lot.

It's not that I insist on playing the base game, it's that I don't want to (can't afford to) invest in a game plus expansion as a speculative purchase. I want to try the base game, see if I think that it's a keeper that I want to invest in (both financially and in precious game time) and then buy the expansion. If the game under-delivers without the expansion then I'm not going to buy the expansion to "fix" it: it should work as a game and have sufficient replayability to justify the purchase without the expansion.

If you are saying that the base game plus the new rulebook is playable, then that's interesting; but I worry about whether the "broken" cards that the expansion fixes (as described in the description of the expansion here on BGG) will mean that the base game doesn't play very well. If that's the case then it really would mean a further purchase to get the game that I should have got with my purchase of the base game.

I don't suppose that you have any intention of a second printing that will provide a replacement rulebook and replacement cards - or even just a cheap expansion that provides those parts? I might be tempted to pony up an extra £5 or so to get a fully functional base game as I'm sure I could sell/trade them on if I decided that I did need the expansion.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:

If you are saying that the base game plus the new rulebook is playable, then that's interesting; but I worry about whether the "broken" cards that the expansion fixes (as described in the description of the expansion here on BGG) will mean that the base game doesn't play very well. If that's the case then it really would mean a further purchase to get the game that I should have got with my purchase of the base game.


There are couple of cards which in the base game have texts that are not self explanatory.
Those cards are all available here at BGG, corrected.

Again, I have to point out that MH brings more VARIETY to each deck, more than corrections.
Of course, there ARE corrections to 10+ cards, but most are just clarifications.

Quote:
I don't suppose that you have any intention of a second printing that will provide a replacement rulebook and replacement cards - or even just a cheap expansion that provides those parts? I might be tempted to pony up an extra £5 or so to get a fully functional base game as I'm sure I could sell/trade them on if I decided that I did need the expansion.


Second print might eventually come, but it's very unlikely for a year or two.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
OK thanks for the explanation. So to "patch" the game currently on sale I will need to use the following files to create replacements for the equivalent component in the base game:

Corrected Corsair
Current Rulebook
Playmat (optional)
Updated Captain Cards
Corrected Cards
Galactic Trade Chart (optional)

Is this complete and correct? Are the two marked as "optional" actually required updates or are they purely cosmetic additions to the game (in the category of player aid rather than game component)?

That's a fair-sized "patch" to apply; I suspect that it might cost the same to produce as buying the expansion.

One final question: is it necessary for any of the replacement cards to match the finish of those from the game, or is no information revealed by the finish? (e.g. if cards are drawn from a deck, could I tell that I was about to draw one of the replacement cards or are these cards not drawn cards?)



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:
OK thanks for the explanation. So to "patch" the game currently on sale I will need to use the following files to create replacements for the equivalent component in the base game:

Corrected Corsair
Current Rulebook
Playmat (optional)
Updated Captain Cards
Corrected Cards
Galactic Trade Chart (optional)

Is this complete and correct? Are the two marked as "optional" actually required updates or are they purely cosmetic additions to the game (in the category of player aid rather than game component)?


That is a good list. Playmat certainly is optional, but recommended.
Galactic trade chart has one bug, so you can simply correct that with a pen.

Quote:
That's a fair-sized "patch" to apply; I suspect that it might cost the same to produce as buying the expansion.


Well, I was not exaggerating when I said that you'll get quite a lot from Mostly Harmless.
It's not JUST a patch.

Quote:
One final question: is it necessary for any of the replacement cards to match the finish of those from the game, or is no information revealed by the finish? (e.g. if cards are drawn from a deck, could I tell that I was about to draw one of the replacement cards or are these cards not drawn cards?)


Well, for ships and captains I see no reason why those would have to match in quality or shape.
Those are, anyhow, determined prior to actual game and will not change during the game.

For the corrected cards, I'd mark those manually on the original cards to have the
original backside graphics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Timo, I think that's all I need to know to make my decision. If I go ahead and buy I'll put together a GeekList on "how I patched Phantom League" based on the list I posted.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Thanks Timo, I think that's all I need to know to make my decision. If I go ahead and buy I'll put together a GeekList on "how I patched Phantom League" based on the list I posted.


That is very interesting. Appreciated.

And you run in to any trouble, just don't hesitate to contact me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For what this is worth I played the game using the new rules without the first expansion and had no real issues. Yes, there is errata for some of the cards but since I sleeve my cards it was a simple matter to print out the corrections and put them in the sleeves.

It is a fun game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
martimer wrote:
For what this is worth I played the game using the new rules without the first expansion and had no real issues. Yes, there is errata for some of the cards but since I sleeve my cards it was a simple matter to print out the corrections and put them in the sleeves.

It is a fun game.
I'm not a big fan of sleeving cards unless they are going to get a lot of handling (like the role cards in Citadels), but that's a good way of "attaching" a corrected card. I just wonder whether it would be obvious that a card was a corrected card when it's in play. Of course, adding the cost of sleeving jacks up the cost of a patched 1st Ed even further. On the other hand, maybe it might be cheaper to home print replacement card faces and sleeve all the cards than to print shop replacement cards, in which case that sounds like a solution.

What sleeves did you use and how is the fit?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I honestly do not recall which sleeves I used. I do recall the fit being good and I have not had any trouble "disguising" the errata cards. If the sleeves used are too large it can be a problem but I have solved that in the past with "post it glue" (non-permanent adhesive) to keep the slip in place.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:

What sleeves did you use and how is the fit?


I believe that you should be able to use any sleeves
meant for MtG.

I use mostly 'hard' sleeves from varying manufacturers, as
long as those are intended for MtG it seems to be a snug fit
every time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Green
England
Horsham
West Sussex
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
I just wonder whether it would be obvious that a card was a corrected card when it's in play.

What sleeves did you use and how is the fit?


I used standard CCG sized UltraPro clear sleeves:
http://www.chaoscards.co.uk/accessories-c1/deck-protectors-s...
(these are the cheapest regular supplier I could find, but check ebay first)

£2/50 wasn't bank breaking. I got PL when it came out and sleeved the errata cards- they were indistinguishable. Sleeved cards fit very well in the MH box. however, you are right- this is an expensive game to play. I've played through a couple of solo test games and really don't think the combat system is any good. Now I'm invested in the game to the tune of £70 I will probably buy PA too. soblue I hope that it will bring the game to a level I would be happy teaching it- and having spent circa £100 on it by that point, I sincerely hope so.

That seems harsh, but I am really interested to see what the alignment chart does for the game, I suspect that will be an interesting mechanism to play with. The feel of the game and the depth of experience you get for a 90 minute game is fantastic too. Having played Eclipse and not being sold on it as a 3 hour dice determined game I think The Phantom League is worth persevering with.

Narg. It's a hard game to recommend.
1 
 Thumb up
2.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mgreen02 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I just wonder whether it would be obvious that a card was a corrected card when it's in play.

What sleeves did you use and how is the fit?


I used standard CCG sized UltraPro clear sleeves:
http://www.chaoscards.co.uk/accessories-c1/deck-protectors-s...
(these are the cheapest regular supplier I could find, but check ebay first)

£2/50 wasn't bank breaking. I got PL when it came out and sleeved the errata cards- they were indistinguishable. Sleeved cards fit very well in the MH box. however, you are right- this is an expensive game to play. I've played through a couple of solo test games and really don't think the combat system is any good. Now I'm invested in the game to the tune of £70 I will probably buy PA too. soblue I hope that it will bring the game to a level I would be happy teaching it- and having spent circa £100 on it by that point, I sincerely hope so.

That seems harsh, but I am really interested to see what the alignment chart does for the game, I suspect that will be an interesting mechanism to play with. The feel of the game and the depth of experience you get for a 90 minute game is fantastic too. Having played Eclipse and not being sold on it as a 3 hour dice determined game I think The Phantom League is worth persevering with.

Narg. It's a hard game to recommend.
You've pretty much encapsulated my concerns. Naturally, Eridis has put a very positive spin on it (and been helpful and constructive), but nevertheless that nagging doubt persists. Still, I've put it on my Christmas wishlist so I'll leave it to the vagaries of selection by those who buy me gifts. If the game gets lucky I'll provide some feedback. It would be an interesting video post as well (a combined before/after review and how I patched practical demo)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm going to necro my own thread here: so what's the skinny on Pilot Academy? We now have a second expansion this time it fixes Combat and (by the sounds of it) Missions as well as providing another rulebook update (which is also being updated to a combined rulebook). Surely this game is ripe for a 2.0 release that puts out a sensibly-priced fixed base game and then an expansion that provides all the bits left over that actually work as expansion bits? Obviously that won't happen for a while else it would cannibalise sales of current release items.

Man I wish somebody in my game group had this so I could try before I buy - 'cos it sure feels like a £100 entry bar for a £40 game to me. (Nobody bought me it for Christmas)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:
I'm going to necro my own thread here: so what's the skinny on Pilot Academy? We now have a second expansion this time it fixes Combat and (by the sounds of it) Missions as well as providing another rulebook update (which is also being updated to a combined rulebook). Surely this game is ripe for a 2.0 release that puts out a sensibly-priced fixed base game and then an expansion that provides all the bits left over that actually work as expansion bits? Obviously that won't happen for a while else it would cannibalise sales of current release items.

Man I wish somebody in my game group had this so I could try before I buy - 'cos it sure feels like a £100 entry bar for a £40 game to me. (Nobody bought me it for Christmas)


Hi,

In retrospective it is easy to say that the base game and MH should have been the 'base game' and Pilot Academy as expansion, then.

We have repacked most of remaining base games + Mostly Harmless to a new COMBO boxes (MH box + all relevant content from MH + base game).
That is available at MSRP of 59€. We have shipment enroute to USA as well and should be there like late July, through Game Salute.

Game Salute has also demo copies present on almost every convention they attend, which helps in testing the game.

I also know that there are quite a bunch of copies of PL+MH circulating in UK, which should enable you to test the game.

What it comes to second edition of Phantom League, that is not currently that likely in a short run as our efforts are concentrated on two new games we intend to release later this year or early next year.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Timo as ever!
Eridis wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I'm going to necro my own thread here: so what's the skinny on Pilot Academy? We now have a second expansion this time it fixes Combat and (by the sounds of it) Missions as well as providing another rulebook update (which is also being updated to a combined rulebook). Surely this game is ripe for a 2.0 release that puts out a sensibly-priced fixed base game and then an expansion that provides all the bits left over that actually work as expansion bits? Obviously that won't happen for a while else it would cannibalise sales of current release items.

Man I wish somebody in my game group had this so I could try before I buy - 'cos it sure feels like a £100 entry bar for a £40 game to me. (Nobody bought me it for Christmas)


Hi,

In retrospective it is easy to say that the base game and MH should have been the 'base game' and Pilot Academy as expansion, then.

We have repacked most of remaining base games + Mostly Harmless to a new COMBO boxes (MH box + all relevant content from MH + base game).
That is available at MSRP of 59€. We have shipment enroute to USA as well and should be there like late July, through Game Salute.
hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

Still, that's good news - but will this package be available in the UK at an equivalent discount?

Quote:
Game Salute has also demo copies present on almost every convention they attend, which helps in testing the game.

I also know that there are quite a bunch of copies of PL+MH circulating in UK, which should enable you to test the game.
if only I knew a local game group where somebody owned a copy (London is not local). I'll so some digging.

Quote:
What it comes to second edition of Phantom League, that is not currently that likely in a short run as our efforts are concentrated on two new games we intend to release later this year or early next year.
yup, that's pretty much what I expect (and it's not unreasonable, just unfortunate from my PoV)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timo Multamäki
Finland
ASKA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Still, that's good news - but will this package be available in the UK at an equivalent discount?


If I can help, it will.
But in the meanwhile, I have a few of those 'combo' boxes.
It it rather a heavy box so postal will be a bummer.

But if you order a full set from me, I can certainly
provide you a signed set (and if you like PA copies, I have
still some with promo cards left).

Quote:
yup, that's pretty much what I expect (and it's not unreasonable, just unfortunate from my PoV)


Yep.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
say "em-cee-crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Eridis wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
Still, that's good news - but will this package be available in the UK at an equivalent discount?


If I can help, it will.
But in the meanwhile, I have a few of those 'combo' boxes.
It it rather a heavy box so postal will be a bummer.

But if you order a full set from me, I can certainly
provide you a signed set (and if you like PA copies, I have
still some with promo cards left).
A kind offer Timo, thanks. I would actually prefer to buy direct off the designer - more money goes to support the designer that way, always a good thing. However, assuming postage from Finland really - as you say - puts the price up. Maybe the combo-pack will make it onto my Christmas 2013 wishlist!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.