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A Touch of Evil: The Coast» Forums » General

Subject: Card backs darker than base game rss

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Dan Buman
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M00NSYLVER wrote:
rcmoore4 wrote:
Okay, you're all going to skewer me as a "fanboy" for saying this, but as someone who owns the expansion this just doesn't bother me that much. It's mildly annoying at best. And there's a simple "sleeve the cards" solution at worst. I agree, FFP quality control should be better, but this hasn't stopped me from enjoying this expansion. I'm not disappointed I bought it, and I'm glad I get to enhance my play experience with this expansion.

I guess, though, without someone willing to take a stand (which many of you admirably are able to do), FFP may just keep doing more of the same. So I applaud those of you who are willing to take a stand for quality control. But for me, it's not such a deal-breaker.

Please be gentle on me.


Thumb'ed & agree 100%. Bought it, played it, loved it, minor (IMO), but regrettable, quality issues did not change that one bit. Neither will all the name calling in the world. Makes me sad that others are going to miss out based on something that might be a non-issue when seen in person or introduced in play, but I'll continue to enjoy it regardless.
---MS



Just wanted to say I also agree with you two 100%. Great game. Great expansion. Its too bad such a small issue has moved the shadow track so many steps closer to darkness for some owners of this expansion. I think we need the event card "Its just a scratch"!!!
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MoonSylver
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mrsarcasmo wrote:
Wow. I can't believe no one here hasn't mentioned the controversy that happened when Growing Hunger came out, and the boards were insanely different than the original boards. That was way back in 2008, and I don't think they changed printers, because they still suck as bad.

Basically the short version goes something like this: Jason came in on page two of the conversation all hurty-feelings. It turns out that the original boards for the first printing of LNOE were actually too dark, and the new light boards were they was they were "supposed" to be and that from the second printing on, the boards would all match the new, lighter boards from Growing Hunger. Needless to say, this didn't impress us first-print owners. Their solution was to offer the new boards at a price. I believe I paid $15 with shipping, although that was five years ago and I don't remember the exact number. A lot of us remained unimpressed, but moved on.

If you want the long version, here it is: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/304587/growing-disappointmen...

It reminds me very much of this conversation.


Yep. I thought of that as well. Really didn't want to bring it up. I'd rather forget about it.shake

Fortunatly, despite all the vitriol back then, a compromise was eventually reached wherein they sold replacement color corrected boards at cost. Maybe they're do the same for The Cost decks eventually. Who knows?
---MS
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Chuck Hurd
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All this discussion seems to be centered around the COLOR of the cards...but my biggest issue is with the SIZE of the cards. What a pain in the neck to try to shuffle and not have the cards sort themselves and clump up in the deck. Very annoying - and if anything was going to break the deal for me it would be this.

Not being in the print or publishing industry I don't know if the cards would have been made and printed by the same company, or cut by one and printed by another. If two vendors are involved then there is definitely a pattern - of something - ineptness, inexperience, mismanagement, laziness (can this be possible?), disloyalty to fanbase - I don't know what but something is preventing FFP from getting it right and making it right. That is a shame.

Like MoonSylver though I dislike cutting my nose off to spite my face. If I hadn't purchased The Coast I would have missed out on an expansion that adds an incredible amount of depth to the AToE experience with new mechanics and characters.

It's a shame that FFP is missing the boat on the one critical mechanic that is the crux of the interaction between the player and the game - THE CARDS.
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Drew
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Carcking wrote:
All this discussion seems to be centered around the COLOR of the cards...but my biggest issue is with the SIZE of the cards. What a pain in the neck to try to shuffle and not have the cards sort themselves and clump up in the deck. Very annoying - and if anything was going to break the deal for me it would be this.


This is why I can never break free of my sleeving addiction. At some point I am going to have to decide between either not sleeving and stop buying expansions or allow my unholy addiction to sleeving to destroy me.
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Jack
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Sleevin' fo' life!
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Patrick
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senorcoo wrote:
Sleevin' fo' life!

Always stay strong!
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Dan Buman
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Sleeving is addicting. I never had any use for it. Once I was introduced to it, I feel the need to sleeve all my cards. Even the ones that are incredibly tough and well madeblush.
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Jeffrey Speer
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I opened this thread because I'm a moron. I remember the issues from the Growing Hunger and was sort of angry about this until there was a sentence that got lost in FFP bashing:

Just draw from the bottom of the deck.

Nothing we do in an Internet forum is going to make a difference. FFP didn't change when Growing Hunger had a problem, nor when my cards in Something Wicked were a different size. How is this different?

I still like the game and want the variety. But hey, keep on trucking, guys.
It's not like we're talking Mayday games here.
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Patrick
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Kaworu17 wrote:
I opened this thread because I'm a moron. I remember the issues from the Growing Hunger and was sort of angry about this until there was a sentence that got lost in FFP bashing:

Just draw from the bottom of the deck.

Nothing we do in an Internet forum is going to make a difference. FFP didn't change when Growing Hunger had a problem, nor when my cards in Something Wicked were a different size. How is this different?

I still like the game and want the variety. But hey, keep on trucking, guys.
It's not like we're talking Mayday games here.

HA. That is a painful comparison. I'd say it's unnecessary but .... I think FFP needs to see the dislike of their policies. I enjoy their games .. but this bullshit is getting ridiculous.
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Jack
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Let me just defend Mayday games a little. Whenever I have sleeve issues, they are very good about helping me out. I know that may not be everyone's experience, but it has been mine.
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Patrick
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senorcoo wrote:
Let me just defend Mayday games a little. Whenever I have sleeve issues, they are very good about helping me out. I know that may not be everyone's experience, but it has been mine.

I had sleeves that were different sizes.. I complained and they sent me new packages of sleeves.... There were also different sizes. Not just different heights like sometimes FFG's are... different heights AND widths.

I gave up at that point.
 
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ugo oliveti
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my cards are darker too (not darker as the first pic but as the second row of pics).
mystery and secret cards are the most annoying. fortunately none of my party member notice this thing til now...

but the WORST thing is that the minis are of a different size!!!!!!
this is a mess.
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Tristan Hall
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Got my copy for Christmas:

1. The card backs are way darker than the base game.
2. The minis are noticeably smaller too.
3. All of my tokens were badly misprinted with the text cropped off.

soblue

My FLGS were kind enough to replace it no questions asked which just about solved issue 3 (the text is only just on the counters, but just enough so that you can read and therefore play it), but not 2 and 1. So clearly this is a batch issue - I feel bad for FFP, but I feel ripped off too.
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Scott Everts
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I'm bummed about this issue too but what really annoys me is the silence we get. I've noticed over the years that FFP hardly ever interacts with their customers here. The only posts we get is if a new game is coming out and they post some pics.

I suppose it's easier to just ignore it and let us all wind down and finally wander off. I recently have had some serious problems with Sony tech support with a TV that's been broken over 3 weeks now. I've called and called and all they do is either tell me what I want to hear (lies) or let me rant until I run about of breath, then just tell me sorry, that's the way it is.

With this card issue FFP would have to commission new cards which would cost them a lot of money so easier to let us vent and run out of steam. Sadly, I can understand why they do that.
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Jack
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And if we stop buying their products, then it will be them that run out of steam.
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Drew
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senorcoo wrote:
And if we stop buying their products, then it will be them that run out of steam.


It seems to me these issues are pretty common with lots of expansions and have been for a long time for many publishers. It seems like with each new expansion the printers find someway to squeeze a few extra cents of profit out -- cheaper minis, card stock, boards, and little attempt is made to match colors, card sizes, or mini plastic. I guess their contracts with their overseas printers are what shows up is what you get.



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Brian Cwikla

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clip611 wrote:


It seems to me these issues are pretty common with lots of expansions and have been for a long time for many publishers.


Do you have some examples of this? I can't think of any component difference issues I've had with expansions by other publishers, whether they are games I own or those my friends own. Obviously I haven't seen everything out there and am curious what other issues there are specifically as I'm curious to look into those publisher's responses.

The silence and lack of response of any kind by FFP has really turned me off unfortunately. I would love to get the whole Touch of Evil series but now, after this thread, I have no compulsion to buy any of it whatsoever, which is sad because the game is right up my alley.
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Drew
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I wrote about some issues I had back on pg 2 of this thread.

Going back to Talisman 2nd editions one of the expansions had an extremely different color of green.

Actually Talisman 4th ed (revised) might be one of the few games which the quality seems relatively the same between versions.

There are many threads about problems with all of the Mage Knight printings -- misaligned cards, cheap cards, color variations between print runs, reversed punched counters, broken minis, missing parts. That was just the base game.

Apparently Runebound Isle of Dread has had print runs which fixed typos and then the next print run used the bad versions of cards. Runebound also has expansions where the back of the card is aligned differently from the front compared to other expansions. Good number of typos. There is also a slight difference of card sizes.

Defenders of the Realms has minis of different plastic color and different type of plastic that is obvious enough from looking at the minis. Also cards are not sized consistently with the base game.

Arkham Horror it sounds like the board quality decreases with each print run to the point that they just rip apart. I also had the Arkham Horror base game with warping board issue.

There are others that I hear about here on BBG. The above are those which I have encountered personally. Considering that the majority of my game collection is a relative few games but having all the expansions it seems pretty common to me.

Then there is the smell of the cup in Stone Age...





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MoonSylver
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clip611 wrote:
Going back to Talisman 2nd editions one of the expansions had an extremely different color of green.


Actually, I'm not 100% sure any/all of the Talisman 2nd core + expansions match! (I have them all). It was one of the first things I thought of when the thread began. Maybe it's why this doesn't bother me a lot. I've seen it before.

That said, I know I'm in the minority on this from the posts in this thread. I do think FFP needs to take note. And & do find the responses given & the ensuing silence since a bit disturbing.

The fact that this bothers a lot of other people bothers me. It makes me sad on their behalf. And I fear it bodes ill for future FFP expansions with out some kind of resolution, or at least the issue being addressed going forward in the future.
---MS
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Dan Buman
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M00NSYLVER wrote:
clip611 wrote:
Going back to Talisman 2nd editions one of the expansions had an extremely different color of green.


Actually, I'm not 100% sure any/all of the Talisman 2nd core + expansions match! (I have them all). It was one of the first things I thought of when the thread began. Maybe it's why this doesn't bother me a lot. I've seen it before.

That said, I know I'm in the minority on this from the posts in this thread. I do think FFP needs to take note. And & do find the responses given & the ensuing silence since a bit disturbing.

The fact that this bothers a lot of other people bothers me. It makes me sad on their behalf. And I fear it bodes ill for future FFP expansions with out some kind of resolution, or at least the issue being addressed going forward in the future.
---MS


I also have all of the 2nd edition Talisman games and the cards all vary slightly in color. Back when I bought them new in the 80's I never gave it any thought. It seems we expect much higher standards these days... maybe unreasonable standards? I would have given anything to have games like ATOE back then!!

I agree with MS that this issue bothers me mostly because it bothers so many others. I love the Flying Frog games and I want to see them be successful and produce lots more product. I am deeply concerned that this issue will result in potential customers perceiving these games to be of sub par quality. Nothing could be further from the truth! ATOE and FanG are WONDERFUL games both in quality and game play. I hope this situation gets cleared up soon...
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Chuck Hurd
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We know matched card expansions CAN be achieved...look at Dominion for example. We own the base game and all expansions. The card match is perfect...
 
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Arthur Peterson
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Color matching is very simple. If a company accepts delivery of a print job that is not matched to satisfaction, that company either does not understand the print industry or they do not care about product quality. Plain and simple. This is why the issue is so serious for me. It's not a matter of FFP not being able to fix it, it's a matter of them not even caring enough about their product to look at proofs before signing the print order. There's really no excuse other than apathy toward the customer base.
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Jack
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And that apathy is demonstrated by the lack of a single peep by them regarding this matter.
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Jason Hill
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Hey Guys,

Sorry we haven't had a chance to be on BGG for a while or to give an official response to this thread. It has been a rough past few months for us here at the Frog including a lot of heartache and a death in the family.

We are starting to get things back on track now though. As for the noticeably darker card backs on the Secrets cards in The Coast expansion for ATOE, we have looked into a solution to this for players that are bothered by it. We will be printing a new set of the Secrets from the original ATOE as well as from The Coast (all of the Secrets currently in the game) on a single card sheet and having this available on our official webstore for free with a very small charge for shipping and handling. This should be available starting sometime in March.

The reason that this printing variation occurred is because, without us knowing it, the printer had lightened up some of the artwork for the original ATOE products years ago, without telling us. This has been an issue in the past and since then we have corrected it so that they never change the artwork without our knowledge anymore. This did however have the unintended side effect of making some of the cards in The Coast expansion appear darker than the previous cards. The Coast cards are a better representation of the actual artwork created for the game and the artwork for all future expansions and material moving forward. For the most part, this is either no change or only ever so slightly noticeable. We do understand though that the Secrets deck was affected the most by this, and is potentially the worst deck to have noticeable variation on - which is why we are printing the new unified set of all the Secrets with the 'true art' card coloration.

I am truly sorry that this color variation has caused so much grief to those of you here who care enough to post and send emails to us about it. As always, we work tirelessly to make the highest quality products and the most fun games we can, because we are first and foremost gamers and making great games is our passion.

To end on a slightly happier note, we are hard at work on some really exciting new projects for 2013, including Blood in the Forest for Last Night on Earth and an expansion for Fortune and Glory (as well as a few more surprises). We'll have more info on these over the coming months and will be showing off a lot of cool new stuff at the GAMA tradeshow in Las Vegas this March.

Happy Gaming!

-Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions




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Jack
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Jason - wait a minute. They lightened the artwork without telling you? Forgive me if I'm mostly ignorant of how the gaming business works, but isn't it someone's job at FF to...I dunno...CHECK the final product before sending it out? I'm sorry, but that sounds like a total cop out to me. Like something from the 4th grade, "It wasn't me! Billy did it!"

And when you say that you'll be printing a new sheet for sale on the site, does that mean WE have to cut out our own cards?
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