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Subject: 1st game, so a few clarifications requested rss

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Ian Gill
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Our first game with 5 players went well and we hope to play again next week. The game moved quickly for a 1st play, except for the combat but that was only because there was a lot of explaining to do.

As a result of playing, confirmation on a few rules would be helpful:

Early on, initiative seems potentially powerful so higher speed can be critical when ships may not have improvements with structure points to sacrifice,
ie playing the stock attack card as initiative will give 3 + base ship value against the defender who cant play a card in mitigation. If you are two speed quicker, an aggressive captain card (played as special) could enhance the stock attack value. Is this correct ?

The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)

Trading is one way – you give what is on the left and receive what is on the right. We played that you could do it either way but then I searched for BGG posts and the ones I looked at indicated just one way.

Pirates – losing half cargo – does the owning player choose which goods (we played that way) or does an opponent choose.

Docking – you must pay the fee at the start of the second turn or must leave. You cant sell on the second turn etc in order to pay the fee ? (eg you might plan to leave then someone blockades and you don’t have the cash, only goods)

Selection of ships – it mentions picking a captain (or improvement) to get a speed greater than 1 to enable exploring with a slow ship. Is there a captain that does this ?

Common mission pool variant – if a mission can’t possibly be completed, we assumed the captain can swop his one card for free.
Is this true if it because a captain’s ability (eg cant carry narcotics) prevents the mission ?
To change his card voluntarily he can spend an ENTIRE turn on a planet but this seemed ‘expensive’, particularly as you only start with a choice of two, rather than three. Should he draw two cards again and pick one ?

Kerberos – “passing an Asteroid field” means that it is one of the hexes in the movement path when completing a jump ? If so, if jumping to an unexplored hex through a revealed asteroid, and the jump fails, it says that the movement fails so I assume you stay in the start hex and don’t use the ability to collect ore. Correct ?

If a docking card allows you to buy goods, but your cargo bay is full, can you sell your cargo before buying or would you have to discard the cargo to make space. Ie must docking cards be completed before other actions on a planet/station ?

Thanks
Ian
 
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David Winter
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Posco wrote:

Early on, initiative seems potentially powerful so higher speed can be critical when ships may not have improvements with structure points to sacrifice,
ie playing the stock attack card as initiative will give 3 + base ship value against the defender who cant play a card in mitigation. If you are two speed quicker, an aggressive captain card (played as special) could enhance the stock attack value. Is this correct ?

Yes the stock attack played in the initiative slot is pretty nasty, especially combined with the +6 one use laser, Always try to keep an upgrade fitted.

Posco wrote:
The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)

Yes, stock attack played as a special is resolved as a normal attack in that round

Posco wrote:
Trading is one way – you give what is on the left and receive what is on the right. We played that you could do it either way but then I searched for BGG posts and the ones I looked at indicated just one way.

Always trade left to right

Posco wrote:
Pirates – losing half cargo – does the owning player choose which goods (we played that way) or does an opponent choose.

Owning player chooses

Posco wrote:
Docking – you must pay the fee at the start of the second turn or must leave. You cant sell on the second turn etc in order to pay the fee ? (eg you might plan to leave then someone blockades and you don’t have the cash, only goods)

Yes you may sell and pay off the docking fee in any order.

Posco wrote:
Selection of ships – it mentions picking a captain (or improvement) to get a speed greater than 1 to enable exploring with a slow ship. Is there a captain that does this ?

I remember some captains have additional speed, not sure if that is still the case with the new pilot academy replacement cards.

Posco wrote:
Common mission pool variant – if a mission can’t possibly be completed, we assumed the captain can swop his one card for free.
Is this true if it because a captain’s ability (eg cant carry narcotics) prevents the mission ?
To change his card voluntarily he can spend an ENTIRE turn on a planet but this seemed ‘expensive’, particularly as you only start with a choice of two, rather than three. Should he draw two cards again and pick one ?
Yes in the rulebook under missions it states you may swap a mission if you can prove it cannot be completed.

Posco wrote:
Kerberos – “passing an Asteroid field” means that it is one of the hexes in the movement path when completing a jump ? If so, if jumping to an unexplored hex through a revealed asteroid, and the jump fails, it says that the movement fails so I assume you stay in the start hex and don’t use the ability to collect ore. Correct ?

Seems like a correct interpretation of the rules.

Posco wrote:
If a docking card allows you to buy goods, but your cargo bay is full, can you sell your cargo before buying or would you have to discard the cargo to make space. Ie must docking cards be completed before other actions on a planet/station ?
I would allow the purchasing of goods in this situation, the rules on cargo seem to imply that you may end up with more cargo than you can carry and abandon the excess. While not explicitly clear in the rules I would either enforce the cargo limit at the end of a players turn, or when the player leaves the planet.
 
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Timo Multamäki
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Posco wrote:
Our first game with 5 players went well and we hope to play again next week. The game moved quickly for a 1st play, except for the combat but that was only because there was a lot of explaining to do.


I'll try my best to explain. Sorry for some small delay.

Quote:
Early on, initiative seems potentially powerful so higher speed can be critical when ships may not have improvements with structure points to sacrifice, ie playing the stock attack card as initiative will give 3 + base ship value against the defender who cant play a card in mitigation. If you are two speed quicker, an aggressive captain card (played as special) could enhance the stock attack value. Is this correct ?


Yes. You are correct. Having faster ship is always a trade-off, you will lose something else (most often your ship is also fragile and not really suited for trading).

Quote:
The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)


Almost. If you play any stock cards in the middle row (as Special), it will be resolved BEFORE any other Attacks are in play.
As Special cards are resolved always prior to checking remaining attack&defenses on that battle round. That makes the one stock attack card rather useful and powerful. I'd seriously think, what to play on 1st round SPECIAL slot...

Quote:
Trading is one way – you give what is on the left and receive what is on the right. We played that you could do it either way but then I searched for BGG posts and the ones I looked at indicated just one way.


Yes. Trading is one way only.

Quote:
Pirates – losing half cargo – does the owning player choose which goods (we played that way) or does an opponent choose.


The one who is about to lose half of his cargo will choose.

Quote:
Docking – you must pay the fee at the start of the second turn or must leave. You cant sell on the second turn etc in order to pay the fee ?


If you sell, you have already spent your movement.
Always FIRST the movement (if any) and then action (if any).
In your example, no movement (eg. stay put), action is Station Actions (in this case only sell).

Quote:
(eg you might plan to leave then someone blockades and you don’t have the cash, only goods)


In this case, if I'd be the blockader, I'd make an offer you can't refuse

Quote:
Selection of ships – it mentions picking a captain (or improvement) to get a speed greater than 1 to enable exploring with a slow ship. Is there a captain that does this ?


Yes. There is.

Quote:
Common mission pool variant – if a mission can’t possibly be completed, we assumed the captain can swop his one card for free.
Is this true if it because a captain’s ability (eg cant carry narcotics) prevents the mission ?


Yes and yes. This is correct method and is true also if captains special denies the mission.

Quote:
To change his card voluntarily he can spend an ENTIRE turn on a planet but this seemed ‘expensive’, particularly as you only start with a choice of two, rather than three. Should he draw two cards again and pick one ?


Yes, it is expensive and normally you should still draw a single card.

Quote:
Kerberos – “passing an Asteroid field” means that it is one of the hexes in the movement path when completing a jump ? If so, if jumping to an unexplored hex through a revealed asteroid, and the jump fails, it says that the movement fails so I assume you stay in the start hex and don’t use the ability to collect ore. Correct ?


correct.

Quote:
If a docking card allows you to buy goods, but your cargo bay is full, can you sell your cargo before buying or would you have to discard the cargo to make space. Ie must docking cards be completed before other actions on a planet/station ?


ALL docking cards must always be completed PRIOR to doing any action.
Docking cards are part of MOVEMENT.
 
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Ian Gill
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Quote:
Quote:

Docking – you must pay the fee at the start of the second turn or must leave. You cant sell on the second turn etc in order to pay the fee ?


If you sell, you have already spent your movement.
Always FIRST the movement (if any) and then action (if any).
In your example, no movement (eg. stay put), action is Station Actions (in this case only sell).


Sorry, I dont think I've been clear. My question was, if I want to stay a second turn on a planet, can I sell goods to pay for the fee during the second turn and then pay the fee, or must I be able to pay the fee before any other actions on the planet on the second turn.

thanks for the clarifications

Ian
 
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Ian Gill
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Quote:
Quote:

The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)


Almost. If you play any stock cards in the middle row (as Special), it will be resolved BEFORE any other Attacks are in play.
As Special cards are resolved always prior to checking remaining attack&defenses on that battle round. That makes the one stock attack card rather useful and powerful. I'd seriously think, what to play on 1st round SPECIAL slot...


On page 9, section Special, it says only Support and Escape cards are resolved immediately. So I took this to mean that a stock attack card "is simply applied to the player's attack or defense as it specifies". The next section is titled "Attack and Defense".
Hence, we played that a stock card played as a special allows you to play two attack cards on the first or second round if one of them is a stock card, but that they are resolved together in the next step.
Is this incorrect ?

my original question arose when a card/ability was able to cancel an attack. we played that the stock card could be cancelled as it is both a special AND an attack card.
 
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Ian Gill
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Quote:


Quote:

Selection of ships – it mentions picking a captain (or improvement) to get a speed greater than 1 to enable exploring with a slow ship. Is there a captain that does this ?


Yes. There is.


I need my eyes testing !!
 
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Timo Multamäki
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Docking fee can be at any given point of the turn. That is not part of movement nor part of Planet/Station actions.

 
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Timo Multamäki
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Posco wrote:
Quote:


Quote:

Selection of ships – it mentions picking a captain (or improvement) to get a speed greater than 1 to enable exploring with a slow ship. Is there a captain that does this ?


Yes. There is.


I need my eyes testing !!


Erica Dayson, C08
 
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Ian Gill
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I went back to check after you indicated there was and couldn't believe I missed it. I think I was reading the special text and never noticed.
 
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Timo Multamäki
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Posco wrote:
I went back to check after you indicated there was and couldn't believe I missed it. I think I was reading the special text and never noticed.


No worries. So many captains, so many symbols.
 
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David Winter
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Eridis wrote:

Quote:
The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)


Almost. If you play any stock cards in the middle row (as Special), it will be resolved BEFORE any other Attacks are in play.
As Special cards are resolved always prior to checking remaining attack&defenses on that battle round. That makes the one stock attack card rather useful and powerful. I'd seriously think, what to play on 1st round SPECIAL slot...


PilotAcademyRulebook wrote:

special
If a card is played as a special card to the round, the player may reveal it (or may choose not to – for instance, if it is not actually a special card but was just played there to hold the spot). If the special card is revealed to be a Support Card or an Escape card, resolve it immediately before revealing the other cards in the round (see “Escape Attempts” below for resolving an Escape card). Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies.


This is where I took my ruling from in my comment above.
We played that the attack happened immediately, then went back and read the rulebook to make sure, as it seemed to make NPC ships too weak, mostly being blasted without a chance to defend.
 
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Timo Multamäki
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dedindahed wrote:
Eridis wrote:

Quote:
The stock attack card is BOTH special and attack card at the same time so can always be cancelled by a card that stops attacks. (this seems obvious but just checking)


Almost. If you play any stock cards in the middle row (as Special), it will be resolved BEFORE any other Attacks are in play.
As Special cards are resolved always prior to checking remaining attack&defenses on that battle round. That makes the one stock attack card rather useful and powerful. I'd seriously think, what to play on 1st round SPECIAL slot...


PilotAcademyRulebook wrote:

special
If a card is played as a special card to the round, the player may reveal it (or may choose not to – for instance, if it is not actually a special card but was just played there to hold the spot). If the special card is revealed to be a Support Card or an Escape card, resolve it immediately before revealing the other cards in the round (see “Escape Attempts” below for resolving an Escape card). Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies.


This is where I took my ruling from in my comment above.
We played that the attack happened immediately, then went back and read the rulebook to make sure, as it seemed to make NPC ships too weak, mostly being blasted without a chance to defend.


Let me re-iterate my answer.

What I tried to say is:
* If you play a Special card, it will be always the first card of the round to be resolved.
* If the Special card is Support, Escape, Captain or Ship it will be resolved before anything else. If the card has also consequences on other actions of that round, those apply.
* If the Special is the 'Attack' Special it will be THE FIRST ATTACK of that round, regardless of normal speed order.

What this in essence means?
If you're the slower ship of the combat, you ought to play your Special Attack to first ATTACK slot of the first round, if possible. It is very likely that the faster ship (presumably attacker) is assuming you playing Escape or some defensive stuff and ESPECIALLY if the faster ship plays attack on first round, the best counter (if you can also sustain some damage) is to play Special attack on first round. That Special Attack will then be the first attack on round 1, as it is played as Special. Should that be played as Attack, it would be resolved as normal attack.

So, what I tried (and failed) to say is that location of the same card does matter -- especially for those Special cards.

And no, Special attack does not mean that Defense cards are not applied. It just means that it will be attack which is resolved before other attacks of that round... and of course it'll be a good attack card
 
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Ian Gill
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It is the sentence "Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies." that implies that the stock attack card just becomes another attack card, not that it is resolved any quicker. (I also thought it added to any other attack card played making ONE more powerful combined attack so that you can breach a strong shield etc- I can see now that you get to attack twice in the same round.)

However, under your new clarification, if you are slower (and your opponent uses initiative to attack with his stock attack card - which you cant play a card to counter) you can play it in the first round and it is the first attack to resolve.
I assume it is still subject to any defense cards played by your opponent and so it not always a good option as he will suspect this play and defend accordingly.
Or, are you saying that the stock attack card played as a special also ignores defence cards (as if you had initiative, but in the first round).If so, that doesn't seem very good as both players can automatically get an unopposed strike (with the faster player hitting first in initiative and the slower player in round one).
The important question for me is, if a stock attack played as a special, is quicker than other attacks, is it still subject to defence cards (I think it should be) ?

Hope that makes sense.

Ian
 
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Timo Multamäki
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Obviously on this topic, the rulebook does need clarification(s).

If anyone wants to give a try, I'd appreciate it.

Posco wrote:
It is the sentence "Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies." that implies that the stock attack card just becomes another attack card, not that it is resolved any quicker. (I also thought it added to any other attack card played making ONE more powerful combined attack so that you can breach a strong shield etc- I can see now that you get to attack twice in the same round.)


Yes, you get to attack more times on a single round. Attack cards are not combined unless the attack card clearly says otherwisely.

Quote:
However, under your new clarification, if you are slower (and your opponent uses initiative to attack with his stock attack card - which you cant play a card to counter) you can play it in the first round and it is the first attack to resolve.
I assume it is still subject to any defense cards played by your opponent and so it not always a good option as he will suspect this play and defend accordingly.


It is subjected to defense cards, most certainly.

Quote:
Or, are you saying that the stock attack card played as a special also ignores defence cards (as if you had initiative, but in the first round).

No. They do not ignore defense cards.

[q]If so, that doesn't seem very good as both players can automatically get an unopposed strike (with the faster player hitting first in initiative and the slower player in round one).
The important question for me is, if a stock attack played as a special, is quicker than other attacks, is it still subject to defence cards (I think it should be) ?

Ian


Stock card played as special is subjected to defense cards.
 
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Ian Gill
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Quote:
Obviously on this topic, the rulebook does need clarification(s).

If anyone wants to give a try, I'd appreciate it.

Posco wrote:
It is the sentence "Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies." that implies that the stock attack card just becomes another attack card, not that it is resolved any quicker. (I also thought it added to any other attack card played making ONE more powerful combined attack so that you can breach a strong shield etc- I can see now that you get to attack twice in the same round.)


I don't have the rulebook in front of me but it might be as simple as:

instead of
"Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies."
perhaps
"Otherwise, a stock defense or attack card played as a Special is resolved as a normal defense/attack card in the next step (but does not count against the defence or attack card limit in the round). This enables a player to make two separate attacks (2 two defences) in the first or second round of combat when the limit is usually one.
An extra advantage of the Stock attack card is that it is treated as the fastest attack in any round so is always resolved first"

i dont know if the above is good enough but I'll check it later

Ian

 
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Timo Multamäki
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Posco wrote:
Quote:
Obviously on this topic, the rulebook does need clarification(s).

If anyone wants to give a try, I'd appreciate it.

Posco wrote:
It is the sentence "Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies." that implies that the stock attack card just becomes another attack card, not that it is resolved any quicker. (I also thought it added to any other attack card played making ONE more powerful combined attack so that you can breach a strong shield etc- I can see now that you get to attack twice in the same round.)


I don't have the rulebook in front of me but it might be as simple as:

instead of
"Otherwise, it is simply applied to the player’s attack or defense as it specifies."
perhaps
"Otherwise, a stock defense or attack card played as a Special is resolved as a normal defense/attack card in the next step (but does not count against the defence or attack card limit in the round). This enables a player to make two separate attacks (2 two defences) in the first or second round of combat when the limit is usually one.
An extra advantage of the Stock attack card is that it is treated as the fastest attack in any round so is always resolved first"

i dont know if the above is good enough but I'll check it later

Ian



Not bad at all. Thanks.
 
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